Gauss rifle.

[Vuld_Edone]

Hi',

I am almost afraid to ask, but is anyone still using the Gauss rifle?
I replayed the campaign and noticed that UACs were more common than the Gauss, and... better. I don't count slots, so it's about damage, then heat, then stability, then range.
> For the same weight, an UAC20 will do nearly 3x the damage and twice the stability. Sure, it's 12x the heat, but given what little weight is left anyway it doesn't matter much.
> If weight / heat were a problem, the LB 10-X is 10t and 10 heat for pretty much the Gauss damage output. But it's rare: the UAC10 is ~1.5x the damage, 13t and only 6x the heat.
> Notice that I didn't talk about range: that's obviously where the Gauss shines and maybe in multiplayer it matters but in solo it is dwarved by an LRM boat. For 28t I reached I think... 300 stability damage? Again, 12x the heat but for roughly twice the weight I also get nearly 3x the damage on top of that stability damage.

Again, I am sure there might be a place for the Gauss somewhere. I personally couldn't make a build for Marauder, Atlas, Highlander or King Crab. Let alone Annihilator.
But even if there is a place for it... Gauss rifles are really, really rare. Apart from the campaign one I found none, and I have 3-4 UAC20s.

I don't really want the Gauss buffed (enough OP weapons as is...), I just feel like UACs and LB-Xs should be just as rare, if not more. They are the ones just exploding my damage output, not the Gauss.
I dunno.

[pete]

Yep still use them - got 2 on an Annihilator

[Mudpony]

I quit using them because Ultra 5s and LB-2Xs exist. They're both far superior weapons, overall, and offer more than enough range. Heck, in most cases, a Snub PPC (++ damage variant) is a better choice, as you don't spend that much time outside of its range with how maps are designed. The only thing the Gauss has going for it is the 5 points of structure damage and how that can let you cheese ammo explosions.

Of course, I've modded my game since then, nerfing the HM weapons in all sorts of ways (lowered damage, upped the cost, changed the bonuses).

As far as finding them, though, it isn't that hard. Just set your store filter to Star League or Star League (ADV) and visit those planets. You'll find 'em. You won't have cause to use them because Ultra-5s exist. But you'll find them.

[Azunai]

LBX weapons have hight damage values, but most of their damage ends up being useless. a gun that hits a single spot with 75 damage is WAY more useful than a gun that spreads 100 points of damage over half a dozen different parts of the mech. same for LRMs. they have high total damage, but completely unfocussed and nowhere near as dangerous as a good clean high damage hit.

i found the UAC/20 underwhelming in practice due to the refire penalty. being able to do double shots is kinda cool and all, but in practice the recoil is too high. a ton of AC20 ammo is only 5 shots after all, so you're usually better off shooting only every other turn rather than wasting the expensive ammo on 40% shots.

also, the huge difference in range basically means that the weapons aren't comparable at all. you can mount a gauss on a low armor sniper mech while you really can't expect a mech that needs to get into AC/20 firing range to come out of any engagement unscathed. that thing is pretty much a melee weapon.

the UAC/5++ with the reduced refire penalty (ie. no penalty when combined with a high guts mechwarrior) is pretty crazy, though. and you can mount 2 of them for the same mass as a single gauss, so the gauss rifle can't really compete with that silly OP gun.

[wesnef]

Originally posted by Vuld_Edone:

> Notice that I didn't talk about range: that's obviously where the Gauss shines and maybe in multiplayer it matters but in solo it is dwarved by an LRM boat. For 28t I reached I think... 300 stability damage? Again, 12x the heat but for roughly twice the weight I also get nearly 3x the damage on top of that stability damage.

I don't really care about stability damage, but I do care about range and I like to do called shots. So I use a mix of LRMs (+dmg versions), Gauss, UAC2 & 5, and ER LLas/MLas. Never bothered with a UAC20 in my latest Career.
(that said, I only had Gauss on one mech, because I just found 3 of them, and only one was ++. Bullshark M3 with 2x Gauss, 2xUAC2, 4xLRM5, and. . ?)

[Mudpony]

Originally posted by Azunai:

LBX weapons have hight damage values, but most of their damage ends up being useless. a gun that hits a single spot with 75 damage is WAY more useful than a gun that spreads 100 points of damage over half a dozen different parts of the mech. same for LRMs. they have high total damage, but completely unfocussed and nowhere near as dangerous as a good clean high damage hit.

The thing is, you can mount 3 LB-2Xs for the weight of one Gauss. And with the ++ version, that's 216 damage, with a 1.75x crit mutiplier. If the mech has any exposed spots, you'll trash stuff there. Of course, you need to have the hardpoints to hold that many projectile weapons. But ++LB-2Xs are nuts.

i found the UAC/20 underwhelming in practice due to the refire penalty. being able to do double shots is kinda cool and all, but in practice the recoil is too high. a ton of AC20 ammo is only 5 shots after all, so you're usually better off shooting only every other turn rather than wasting the expensive ammo on 40% shots.

The solution to this issue is a TTS. +3 for projectiles for a ton. And since the Ultra-20++ for some reason gets -3 tons as a bonus (seriously, they must have had an intern on his first day of the job design the HM weapons), well, it actually isn't that hard to mount those and some more ammo. But yeah, the range difference does make it a different beast than the Gauss.

But yeah, it's really the longer range Ultras that make the Gauss look so bad. Especially if you're using called shots.

[Graygan]

I don't use them because I don't bother to head hunt anymore.

That said... if you are building a specific head hunter, they're still awesome.

Jump jets, get up high on the edge of the map so you can see across most of the map. Use a scout with sensor lock to draw in the enemy, sensor locking them while they're out of visual range. Precise Shot to the head. With the Marauder and a 9 Tactics, you'll have a roughly 35% chance to hit the head assuming you make the hit in the first place.

It turns an easy game into an absurdly easy game. Of course, so do a lot of the other weapons. UACs, LBXs, Coils especially can be devastating.

[Big mean bunny]

I still use them the top flight ones are reasonable tonnage and when you cant afford any more alpha heat. They have 5 extra damage as penetrating now which should not be underestimated. Great when you need to cool down from an ultra 20 attack or to put on a 4 snub atlas too.

[Ecliptix]

Yes.
Because if played carefully enough, gauss mechs hit like a truck and don't actually need armor - just a spotter.

That's what your atlas is for xD

[Mudpony]

Originally posted by Big mean bunny:

I still use them the top flight ones are reasonable tonnage and when you cant afford any more alpha heat. They have 5 extra damage as penetrating now which should not be underestimated. Great when you need to cool down from an ultra 20 attack or to put on a 4 snub atlas too.

Or you could use that tonnage for more heat dissipation, and just fire the better weapons some more ;)

[Sentient_Toaster]

Gauss rifles are potentially very neat if

* you have a lot of free tonnage but few ballistic hardpoints
* you want a very low heat build that still puts out focused damage at range (rather than punching)
* for wrecking turrets (which can have fairly sizable armor but almost no structure, so the straight-to-structure damage can wreck them)
* for randomly blowing up mech parts vs. mechs that carry a lot of missiles or autocannon ammo (hellllo, Thunderbolts with ammo in CT...)


You're getting 75+5 from a minimum of 13 tons (+1 per 8 shots) and 4 slots (which explode...). Especially if you have HM... well, 2 UAC/2++ would be 10 tons and 2 slots, 35x4, with a closer minimum range, greater optimum and maximum range. They'd run warmer (16 vs. 5), and be less accurate (0 vs -1, 2 refire penalty vs 0) but that's still very manageable. 2x LB-2X++ would weigh 10, take 2 slots, fire 24 shots for 6ea. with increased crit chance, and even less heat than a Gauss rifle (4 total... ?!), and again have a similar range profile.

[Valen]

I do not use the gauss rifle. I use the ultra ac 10 or just the ac 10.

You can sit all day a do math or figure out combo's of weapons...

But at the end of the day... It is what works for you and allows you to have repeated victories.

Weapon choice is not the primary force multiplier - It is a combination of mechs, weapons, skills, pilot level, and tactics.

[EMax]

Once you put 5 UAC/5++ on an Annihilator you'll forget about any gauss rifles in your inventory.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Azunai:

LBX weapons have hight damage values, but most of their damage ends up being useless. a gun that hits a single spot with 75 damage is WAY more useful than a gun that spreads 100 points of damage over half a dozen different parts of the mech. same for LRMs. they have high total damage, but completely unfocussed and nowhere near as dangerous as a good clean high damage hit.

Spreading is a factor, but if you do enough damage it comes to a point where a more spready weapon becomes better than a more focused one. LRMs may spread a lot more, but 4xLRM20 +2dmg is way superior than two Gauss for anything but headcapping, because they do some much damage that they'll have a way easier time to core, destroying buildings, vehicles, ... except turrets (although they can oneshot them easily as well).

Originally posted by Azunai:

i found the UAC/20 underwhelming in practice due to the refire penalty. being able to do double shots is kinda cool and all, but in practice the recoil is too high. a ton of AC20 ammo is only 5 shots after all, so you're usually better off shooting only every other turn rather than wasting the expensive ammo on 40% shots.

That can be negated with TTS and UAC20 weights less than AC20s. I'd say they're the second best ballistic weapon, after UAC2s. Contrary to UAC5 and UAC10s the UAC20s have kept their damage bonuses, so now they're quite efficient weapons (for a cannon), a bit more than Gauss (both CT core and headcap) at 0% damage reduction and way more at higher %DR.

Originally posted by Azunai:

also, the huge difference in range basically means that the weapons aren't comparable at all. you can mount a gauss on a low armor sniper mech while you really can't expect a mech that needs to get into AC/20 firing range to come out of any engagement unscathed. that thing is pretty much a melee weapon.

The UAC20 is good for headcapping and excellent for CT core, while the Gauss only for headcapping. And then, the UAC2 is excellent at both, although you usually need to use it together with other weapons due to lack of hardpoints. And that's the good thing about UAC20s, they fit very well with the usual one or two ballistic hardpoints, while you can't really mass UAC2s in other but BSK and ANH.

Originally posted by Mudpony:

The thing is, you can mount 3 LB-2Xs for the weight of one Gauss. And with the ++ version, that's 216 damage, with a 1.75x crit mutiplier. If the mech has any exposed spots, you'll trash stuff there. Of course, you need to have the hardpoints to hold that many projectile weapons. But ++LB-2Xs are nuts.

LBX2 are not nuts. They have good dmg/weight/heat ratio, they're not bad, but spread is a factor. Unless you want them for critting (in which case why don't you use LRMs, which are way better), all UACs are more efficient for CT core and all but UAC10s better for headcapping. LBX2 compete not with autocannons but against LRMs as non-PS damage dealer platforms, and LRMSs have indirect fire, which is far better than what the LBX2 offer.

Originally posted by EMax:

Once you put 5 UAC/5++ on an Annihilator you'll forget about any gauss rifles in your inventory.

And once you put 5xUAC2++ 5xERML++ you'll forget about UAC5s. Sure, lower range but you get some extra CT core performance and they are much better for headcapping.

[Mudpony]

Originally posted by danko9696:

LBX2 are not nuts. They have good dmg/weight/heat ratio, they're not bad, but spread is a factor. Unless you want them for critting (in which case why don't you use LRMs, which are way better), all UACs are more efficient for CT core and all but UAC10s better for headcapping. LBX2 compete not with autocannons but against LRMs as non-PS damage dealer platforms, and LRMSs have indirect fire, which is far better than what the LBX2 offer.

LRMs are way worse at critting, actually. Fewer hits for the same tonnage, impacted by clustering (well, unless you turn that off, like me) so often less likely to hit the spot, and lack the 1.25 crit multiplier the base LB-2X has (further boosted by the + line, up to 1.75 on the ++). No contest, LB-2X wins.

Spread-wise, as you yourself say, when you do enough damage, it doesn't matter anymore. Furthermore, with the crit multiplier, this is actually a bonus to the weapon. If you're hitting an unbreached target, the higher damage makes them great. And if it is breached, nothing hunts crits better (not that machine guns are bad, just that they have short range).

Now, yes, LRMs can do indirect fire (and they also benefit from having more variants). But they generate more heat, do less damage, have a lower crit chance, hit fewer locations and just fewer times in general for crit hunting, have longer minimum range, and get less shots per ton of ammo.

LB-2Xs are nuts.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Mudpony:

LRMs are way worse at critting, actually. Fewer hits for the same tonnage, impacted by clustering (well, unless you turn that off, like me) so often less likely to hit the spot, and lack the 1.25 crit multiplier the base LB-2X has (further boosted by the + line, up to 1.75 on the ++). No contest, LB-2X wins

I didn't say LRMs are better for critting but that they're better overall.

And a case could be made about LRMs being better than LBX2 even when lacking crit bonus, and that due to the much higher spreading from a non-clustered weapon with a very high number of hits, which makes LRMs a lot more useful for non-head PS than LBX2.

Let's say you aim at a LT and you impact it with the first LRM missile. Now, beginning with the fourth hit each missile has a better chance to impact it than the LBX2 hits. Clustering makes LRM damage quite more a focused weapon than LBX2s and way more likely to crit a hit location with the armor not completely removed previously.

Originally posted by Mudpony:

Now, yes, LRMs can do indirect fire (and they also benefit from having more variants). But they generate more heat, do less damage, have a lower crit chance, hit fewer locations and just fewer times in general for crit hunting, have longer minimum range, and get less shots per ton of ammo.

Indirect fire is a huge advantage which allows you to fire way more consistently than with LBX2 due to the no LoF requirement, which means LRMs can very easily outdamage LBX2s in practical terms, and longer minimum range is not an issue for pure LRM boats (not mixed range weapons).

So yes, LBX2 are more efficient damage/weight/heat, never said the opposite, but LRMs are far more dependable and reliable support weapons for non-PS mechs, and also as vehicle killers (where clustering also helps). Any vehicle your mechs see or Sensor Lock at any time can be dealt immediately by a LRM boat. Also LRMs are easier to mass, which means higher damage output, even if it is less efficient damage.

So no, LBX2 are not nuts. They're decent weapons but their direct competitor is way way better. So good that enables a mech class on its own.