Multiple Lances at the same time

[Rooster__Cogburn]

We have plenty of room on our ship for multiple lance crews, 3 different sets of lances in the mech bay available for deployment, and from what I can see at least 3 attachment points on the argo for drop ships. Why are we continually fighting multiple lances and not afforded the right to deploy similar forces. Even before this expansion the other side was able to deploy multiple lances and bascially run our ammo bins dry in some cases, why pray tell are we not allowed to the same. I am not saying make the game easier, just give us the option to deploy the forces necessary to make it work.

It is my belief a proper layout to use this massive ship would be to allow for multiple lance crews, yes up to at least 3. With the deployment of more mechs come increased cost to operate, that is your call, you deploy 3 lances when the pay is only able to support 1, you lose credits. It is annoying every time I go down and it requires 90 to 100 ton mechs every single match to overcome the enemyh. Anytime I deploy a scout it really hurts the fighting ability of the crew. I love the need for strat in the game, but really I find I need to brute force it more than use any type of real strat.

Allow more upgrades to the argo with expansions. Why not let us put some kind of ground assault artilary on it, or perhaps hold some kind of defensive/offensive fighter wing. We are mercs, we are going to modify pretty much everything by adding guns, sensor dampeners, missles, more lances, more more more.... this is how it would really be. I can say for a fact, the argo is hardly utilized in this game. Its a giant pretty storage shed for 5 mech pilots and support staff.

Give us the ability to make the most out of what we have been provided. Also being dropped into a battlezone with 2 lance right at the get go to jump us, albeit one of them had 2 vehicles, is down right dirty.

This is battletech, with configurations available to those who want it beyond cookie cutter single lance play. I loved both mech commanders, and still have them somewhere around here. This game if so very similar to those, yet if I remember right we could have up to 24 mechs fighting in a single battle (think it was 12 on each side). That is a hech of party I say.

One final rant. Enough with the shooting through rocks and mountain edges, it is so annoying when only missiles should be able to hit you yet ppc's, autocannons and lasers blast through a hill side or portion of a mountain that should offord you cover and without penalty. Hell my fully trained ace pilots suffer more penalties in battle often times than the enemy does shooting through rocks.

[wesnef]

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

Why are we continually fighting multiple lances and not afforded the right to deploy similar forces.

Because, with the AI the game has, the devs provide "difficulty" via outnumbering.

So, if you were able to drop 2 or 3 lances? You'd still be fighting 2-3 times that much in enemies. Only, with that many enemies on the map, you'd have mechs getting focus-fired by large groups, guaranteeing dead pilots & dead mechs in every fight. Which would make the whole "maintain your Merc Company & build up your power/skill/etc over time" a losing proposition.

Also, the matches would last quite a long time.


To do a decent large-unit game, would require rebalancing & redesigning almost everything from the ground up. This game was intended from the beginning to be you running a lance of 4 mechs. That's what it was built around.


tl;dr - this isn't, and was never intended to be, Mech Commander 3.


edit: that said, they're apparently considering adding the ability to run multiple lances, in multiplayer. The mode that doesn't need enemy AI to manage it's forces.

[Rooster__Cogburn]

Yes I know it was never intended to be MC3, but it has so much more potential than they are granting it at this point. Now for the rest:

No, that is an easy out but not quiet right. They could let us have multiple lances or call down another lance for support just like the enemy does. I have had 2 lances focus firing on 1 mech already so its not like it isn't happening now that flashpoint is released.

Yes there would be some rebalancing, but it would not be as drastic as your description makes it seem. Also I would fullly expect with large battles that we lose pilots, have more damaged mechs, and the matches take longer. I do not need to blow through a game in a single sitting. Heck this could even be something like a "True Merc" expansion, that would would have you start the game from scratch but give you a lot more options for how you setup and play through the matches. That puts money in their pockets for the changes and puts people who want the real dirt and grit of battletech at their disposal. Imagine being able to call in orbital strikes, or backup, or both but the options for this was based off of choices you made while upgrading the Argo. Remember the battle at the castle and how many mechs they were able to throw at you, their drop ships had artilary as well.

This game has so much untapped potential for single player play and story line addons its makes even an old man like me excited. I shouldn't need to install mods like roguetech to get a taste of its possibilities.

[Wantoomany]

They already gave you a one of a kind super ship that any major house would kill for. It honestly is so far beyond what any small merc group should have. But I guess that alone isnt good enough.

Also dont confuse storage/work space on the Argo with drop capasity. You still only have a single Leopard. So no matter what you do to the Argo you will still only be able to drop 4 mechs at a time.

[Rooster__Cogburn]

Really Wantoomany, they gave us a great ship that is hardly being utilized was the point. Also if you would of read the entire convo you would of saw where I stated in the first sentence of the first post " and from what I can see at least 3 attachment points on the argo for drop ships. " What else would attach to those besides more leopards.

[tolshortte]

its a single player game. if someone wants to run 12 mechs, either through reinforcements or multiple drop ships, its not going to hurt anyone else.

if the AI stepped up and dropped in reinforcements to match, it could create a whole new dynamic.

while you may lose some mechs and pilots, you would likely have some epic battles. the kind of battles that could help a player really connect with a pilot through heroic actions on the battlefield.

[Wantoomany]

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

Really Wantoomany, they gave us a great ship that is hardly being utilized was the point. Also if you would of read the entire convo you would of saw where I stated in the first sentence of the first post " and from what I can see at least 3 attachment points on the argo for drop ships. " What else would attach to those besides more leopards.

Where are you going to get more Leopards? They are about 100 mill each. Assuming you can find anyone willing to sell you one. And it's only one extra Leopard, the last hard point would still be needed to attach to a jump ship.

As far as the Argo, it's being utilized just fine. It's not a combat vessel, It's a mobile garage.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

They could let us have multiple lances or call down another lance for support just like the enemy does.

They could have, IF the idea of running a full company of multiple lances was within the developer's design documents.

Thing is, it wasn't. The devs never intended for the player to drop with more than four mechs at a time - and they explicitly said so *long* before the game was actually released. As such (and as explained before), the entire game is balanced around the concept of the player's four mechs beating the entire game. To change things now would require the game to - more or less - be re-written from scratch.

[Rooster__Cogburn]

Tsk tsk...where do you get new mechs from if you dont buy them, from salvaging parts of course. Oh ye s the jump ship would attatch to the bottom so that would leave us with 2 attatchment points in most cases 3 when a jump ship isnt needed... yep your still arguing that I said the ship isnt just fine, it is but could be so much more. Now stop trolling a point that was never disputed.

Originally posted by Wantoomany:

Where are you going to get more Leopards? They are about 100 mill each. Assuming you can find anyone willing to sell you one. And it's only one extra Leopard, the last hard point would still be needed to attach to a jump ship.

As far as the Argo, it's being utilized just fine. It's not a combat vessel, It's a mobile garage.

[Werecat101]

3 small things about this subject


1/ as others have said here is that the devs sat and played the game with more lances,but found the balance was best at 4 mechs vs 8-12 opponents, with a small chance of assistance from friendly mechs or vehicles in some missions, on the maps we have you can nearly shoot from one edge to the other with a spotter.

2/ more mechs would require much larger maps or it would be a pointless exercise in fast kills by masses of mechs, Ai is a bad term for the way a game plays on a computer A real AI has some logic a game AI has a few basic rules not even close to a real AI. so the game is balance by putting 2-3 enemy for every one of you so do the maths and 8 of you = 16-24 of them. with the increase in game size comes an increase in computer minimum requirements. I run this at 4K on a I7-6700k O/C 4.8Ghz and a AORUS GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti Waterforce Xtreme Edition 11G O/C 2060mhz mem at 5900mhz with 32 gig of ram at 3000MHz its not the best PC I could have but it runs well. they could easily scale this game up so that my specs were the minimum and it would be huge and fantastic and have 1/50 of the current playerbase and never be commercially viable.

3/ just because you have a docking collar available doesnt mean you get to fill it, finding a dropship and a pilot that wants to work for this rather small mercenary company wouldnt be easy, and as others have said buying a working dropship 100 million would be a wreck needing work a fully equiped unit with a pilot more like 300 million plus running costs. now looking at the Argo design its obvious we were designed to run Leopard class dropships.so bigger dropships are completely out of this discussion.

[Wantoomany]

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

TI said the ship isnt just fine, it is but could be so much more.

So a specially designed ship, created specifically for this game, specifically to serve as a mobile repair/refit shop could be much more?

Entitled much?

[Rooster__Cogburn]

Originally posted by tolshortte:

its a single player game. if someone wants to run 12 mechs, either through reinforcements or multiple drop ships, its not going to hurt anyone else.

if the AI stepped up and dropped in reinforcements to match, it could create a whole new dynamic.

while you may lose some mechs and pilots, you would likely have some epic battles. the kind of battles that could help a player really connect with a pilot through heroic actions on the battlefield.

Thanks tolshortte, that is somewhat my view on it as well, unfortunately I will likely have to find or possibly try to write my own mod for the game to allow it.

Originally posted by steve:

3 small things about this subject

1/ as others have said here is that the devs sat and played the game with more lances,but found the balance was best at 4 mechs vs 8-12 opponents ....

2/ more mechs would require much larger maps or it would be a pointless exercise in fast kills by masses of mechs ....

3/ just because you have a docking collar available doesnt mean you get to fill it, .../quote]

All Great points, thank you Steve for your input.

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

They could have, IF the idea of running a full company of multiple lances was within the developer's design documents.

Thing is, it wasn't. ....

True DasaKamov, but my points remain that his game has "a lot" of untapped potential that I believe they can expand upon.

Originally posted by Wantoomany:

So a specially designed ship, created specifically for this game, specifically to serve as a mobile repair/refit shop could be much more?

Entitled much?

Entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

Not even close Wantoomany, not even close. This is my view aka "belief" about how much more this game could be, and this last post by you is your continued desire for attention by trying to call me out with a "first world problem". Go away your not adding value to this discussion.

[tolshortte]

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

Originally posted by tolshortte:

its a single player game. if someone wants to run 12 mechs, either through reinforcements or multiple drop ships, its not going to hurt anyone else.

if the AI stepped up and dropped in reinforcements to match, it could create a whole new dynamic.

while you may lose some mechs and pilots, you would likely have some epic battles. the kind of battles that could help a player really connect with a pilot through heroic actions on the battlefield.

Thanks tolshortte, that is somewhat my view on it as well, unfortunately I will likely have to find or possibly try to write my own mod for the game to allow it.

Originally posted by steve:

3 small things about this subject

1/ as others have said here is that the devs sat and played the game with more lances,but found the balance was best at 4 mechs vs 8-12 opponents ....

2/ more mechs would require much larger maps or it would be a pointless exercise in fast kills by masses of mechs ....

3/ just because you have a docking collar available doesnt mean you get to fill it, .../quote]

All Great points, thank you Steve for your input.



True DasaKamov, but my points remain that his game has "a lot" of untapped potential that I believe they can expand upon.



Entitled: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.

Not even close Wantoomany, not even close. This is my view aka "belief" about how much more this game could be, and this last post by you is your continued desire for attention by trying to call me out with a "first world problem". Go away your not adding value to this discussion.

i for one would try it out but probably wouldnt do it long term because of the time sink but i can see how the dynamic could create new and interesting situations overall.

its not a bad idea really, if you get a mod going for it let me know please. id try it out.

[draco2tiamat]

personally i wouldn't mind if they added the ability to task another lance with a mission that would auto complete (like assassin's creed does), because you'r right why do we have all these units and never autually do anything with them.

As far as another Leopard they could easily add that as a let game story mission to salvage a broken one, that would need to be repaired (adding a much needed money sink to end game)

[laurin.schafhausen]

Originally posted by wesnef:

Originally posted by Rooster__Cogburn:

Why are we continually fighting multiple lances and not afforded the right to deploy similar forces.

Because, with the AI the game has, the devs provide "difficulty" via outnumbering.

So, if you were able to drop 2 or 3 lances? You'd still be fighting 2-3 times that much in enemies. Only, with that many enemies on the map, you'd have mechs getting focus-fired by large groups, guaranteeing dead pilots & dead mechs in every fight. Which would make the whole "maintain your Merc Company & build up your power/skill/etc over time" a losing proposition.

All true.
But I would like to have in the late game not only mostly heavy mechs in my lance but in example a medium and a scout (very light) or 3 light medium lances.
That would not break the game for someone like me who is roleplaying.

Bus sure if you would bring 3 lances with assaults it would be kinda pointless with the AI.

[Ichthyic]

...then there's the performance issues.

the version of unity they used to make this game struggles as it is. add 3 more lances to the battlefield?

lol. it will slow to crawl.