How to force indirect attack?

[PandaCheese]

It makes little sense that your specced out LRM boat, just because it can see a target, loses some accuracy because that counts as a direct attack, whereas indirect is more accurate with maxed out Tactical skills, except no way to make it do that.

[josephdw106]

indirect attacks are made from behind mountains and buildings that are too tall, you can have someone else spot for long range missles and they lob over the blocking areas.

[Socipat]

1) Your fire support pilot should have a primary skill in Tactics and a secondary in Gunnery.
2) Only move your fire support mech to range. This means only move the mech the needed distance to place your taget in the maximum firing range of your prefered weapon system.
3) Since your fire support is indirect you do not want to take the Tactic's perks because you want your fire support to attack as high up in the order as possible and your scout should be the one sensor locking the target you want to hit.
4) Sometimes a sensor lock will put the target in LOS of your fire support mech. This is why your secondary skill is Gunnery as this will make hitting the target easier.

When done correctly your fire support 'Mech will sit far behind you main force an accurately rain hell on the enemy with little danger to it self.

[Thokari]

Originally posted by socipat:

1) Your fire support pilot should have a primary skill in Tactics and a secondary in Gunnery.
2) Only move your fire support mech to range. This means only move the mech the needed distance to place your taget in the maximum firing range of your prefered weapon system.
3) Since your fire support is indirect you do not want to take the Tactic's perks because you want your fire support to attack as high up in the order as possible and your scout should be the one sensor locking the target you want to hit.
4) Sometimes a sensor lock will put the target in LOS of your fire support mech. This is why your secondary skill is Gunnery as this will make hitting the target easier.

When done correctly your fire support 'Mech will sit far behind you main force an accurately rain hell on the enemy with little danger to it self.

Despite OP not asking for gameplay tips, I also find the fact highly irritating, that a pilot's direct fire aim aim would be worse under certain circumstances (tactics, gunnery skill) compared to indirect fire.
It is even rediculous in case the direct fire line is half obstructed, for even worse aim.
Makes zero sense, especially in the case if LRMs are the only weapon you are firing.
So, I agree, should get fixed by always forcing indirect fire on weapons that have it, or make an option to force it.

[Mistfox]

Originally posted by Thokari:

Originally posted by socipat:

1) Your fire support pilot should have a primary skill in Tactics and a secondary in Gunnery.
2) Only move your fire support mech to range. This means only move the mech the needed distance to place your taget in the maximum firing range of your prefered weapon system.
3) Since your fire support is indirect you do not want to take the Tactic's perks because you want your fire support to attack as high up in the order as possible and your scout should be the one sensor locking the target you want to hit.
4) Sometimes a sensor lock will put the target in LOS of your fire support mech. This is why your secondary skill is Gunnery as this will make hitting the target easier.

When done correctly your fire support 'Mech will sit far behind you main force an accurately rain hell on the enemy with little danger to it self.

Despite OP not asking for gameplay tips, I also find the fact highly irritating, that a pilot's direct fire aim aim would be worse under certain circumstances (tactics, gunnery skill) compared to indirect fire.
It is even rediculous in case the direct fire line is half obstructed, for even worse aim.
Makes zero sense, especially in the case if LRMs are the only weapon you are firing.
So, I agree, should get fixed by always forcing indirect fire on weapons that have it, or make an option to force it.

Just think of it as familarity with different systems...and lack of with others.
I know of a guy that was so good with a -203 that he could land the grenade onto target boards, but he was just meh with M-16s (yes, decades ago) so it does happen in real life.

Just think of your guy as an indirect fire expert able to fire with pinpoint accuracy on sensors but can't handle shooting directly.

[Socipat]

Originally posted by Thokari:

Originally posted by socipat:

1) Your fire support pilot should have a primary skill in Tactics and a secondary in Gunnery.
2) Only move your fire support mech to range. This means only move the mech the needed distance to place your taget in the maximum firing range of your prefered weapon system.
3) Since your fire support is indirect you do not want to take the Tactic's perks because you want your fire support to attack as high up in the order as possible and your scout should be the one sensor locking the target you want to hit.
4) Sometimes a sensor lock will put the target in LOS of your fire support mech. This is why your secondary skill is Gunnery as this will make hitting the target easier.

When done correctly your fire support 'Mech will sit far behind you main force an accurately rain hell on the enemy with little danger to it self.

Despite OP not asking for gameplay tips, I also find the fact highly irritating, that a pilot's direct fire aim aim would be worse under certain circumstances (tactics, gunnery skill) compared to indirect fire.
It is even rediculous in case the direct fire line is half obstructed, for even worse aim.
Makes zero sense, especially in the case if LRMs are the only weapon you are firing.
So, I agree, should get fixed by always forcing indirect fire on weapons that have it, or make an option to force it.

In that case put it on the proper forum. You know like the Paradox forum.

[spuddy1981]

I think it’s more the skill bonus shouldn’t be high enough to do that. I think the high skill bonuses and skill level make it too easy to hit. Means differences like woods and evasion are useless.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by Mistfox:

Just think of it as familarity with different systems...and lack of with others.
I know of a guy that was so good with a -203 that he could land the grenade onto target boards, but he was just meh with M-16s (yes, decades ago) so it does happen in real life.

Just think of your guy as an indirect fire expert able to fire with pinpoint accuracy on sensors but can't handle shooting directly.

This doesn't resolve the issue explained here, though, where the guy who has sensor information *AND* direct line of sight can't ignore the line of sight and use his indirect fire skills to nail the shot.

This is more like a guy who's great with a grenade launcher but bad with assault rifles deciding to shoot like he has an assault rifle when you told him to lob a grenade at someone just because he has line of sight.

If you have the option of direct fire, it should EITHER be an OPTION or it should AUTOMATICALLY use indirect fire if that gives you better odds and you're only firing indirect fire weapons.

Particularly if a target is partially obscured but you're like "it's fine I have a friendly sensor lock I'll use that and ignore the visual line" as you WOULD (but can't in the game right now). This strikes me as something of an oversight.

[your.sheepy]

Working on it for my Attack Improvement Mod. Demo of the work-in-progress indirect switch:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319998325266841620/492564602488619008/SmartIndirect.mp4

[Big mean bunny]

Cant you use one of your other mechs to block LOS?

[your.sheepy]

Not always feasible; I wouldn't want to move my bulwarked mech in the demo for example. And it is stupid when I have multi-target and I can direct shot and indirect shot at different targets but not at the same target.

[LazerKarate8]

None of the skills in this game are thought out. Indirect fire is more accurate than direct fire? Makes absolutely no sense, but there it is. It's so bad that the devs are now introducing an insta-cooling skill so people can just stomp around alpha striking away. Oh it hurts the pilot, but it's not like you can't just fast forward time until everyone is healed or just hire a replacement.

And, does it even matter? Because un modded the LRMs are more accurate than laser beams. I guess they realized they screwed the pooch making every map an ambush where you're beset by 2-3 enemy lances and they needed a way to make it so the player had a chance. So, you get cheesy bulwark and sensor lock/LRM spam to even things out. It's terrible.

They did such a good job with Shadowrun, but completely dropped the ball with this one, which sucks.

edit: Even in the table top game, you needed to have a spotter unit with line of sight on the enemy and your to hit modifies were a combination of the spotter and firing unit. It gave the poor victim a chance. The tabletop wanted combat to be in your face mech action, that's why you have weird range limits like ac/20s having a max range of 270 meters, which is ridiculous for a large caliber cannon. They just tossed all of that out with this mess and made a gimicky Xcom reboot clone.

Does anyone play the multiplayer? I never bothered because I figured it would be awful and I'd rather go play Mechwarrior Living Legends than sit through turn after turn of LRM spam knockdowns and the like. At least if I get hit or miss with my shots it's my own damn fault and not some RNG nonsense that can be exploited by gimicky and poorly implemented pilot skills.

[SertanDoom]

Originally posted by padimite:

None of the skills in this game are thought out. Indirect fire is more accurate than direct fire? Makes absolutely no sense, but there it is. It's so bad that the devs are now introducing an insta-cooling skill so people can just stomp around alpha striking away. Oh it hurts the pilot, but it's not like you can't just fast forward time until everyone is healed or just hire a replacement.

And, does it even matter? Because un modded the LRMs are more accurate than laser beams. I guess they realized they screwed the pooch making every map an ambush where you're beset by 2-3 enemy lances and they needed a way to make it so the player had a chance. So, you get cheesy bulwark and sensor lock/LRM spam to even things out. It's terrible.

They did such a good job with Shadowrun, but completely dropped the ball with this one, which sucks.

edit: Even in the table top game, you needed to have a spotter unit with line of sight on the enemy and your to hit modifies were a combination of the spotter and firing unit. It gave the poor victim a chance. The tabletop wanted combat to be in your face mech action, that's why you have weird range limits like ac/20s having a max range of 270 meters, which is ridiculous for a large caliber cannon. They just tossed all of that out with this mess and made a gimicky Xcom reboot clone.

Does anyone play the multiplayer? I never bothered because I figured it would be awful and I'd rather go play Mechwarrior Living Legends than sit through turn after turn of LRM spam knockdowns and the like. At least if I get hit or miss with my shots it's my own damn fault and not some RNG nonsense that can be exploited by gimicky and poorly implemented pilot skills.

Another "mechwarrior" twitch skill/ relfexes = leet skillz. This game uses "brainzzzzsss" :P

[your.sheepy]

A preview of AIM 3.0 is released, that automatically use indirect fire when it is better than firing obstructed. As a pet mod that I've put lots of love in, it also enhances the games in many little ways, so it's be nice if you can give it a try.

https://github.com/Sheep-y/Attack-Improvement-Mod/releases/

[Cggamer]

Originally posted by SquidBob:

Originally posted by padimite:

None of the skills in this game are thought out. Indirect fire is more accurate than direct fire? Makes absolutely no sense, but there it is. It's so bad that the devs are now introducing an insta-cooling skill so people can just stomp around alpha striking away. Oh it hurts the pilot, but it's not like you can't just fast forward time until everyone is healed or just hire a replacement.

And, does it even matter? Because un modded the LRMs are more accurate than laser beams. I guess they realized they screwed the pooch making every map an ambush where you're beset by 2-3 enemy lances and they needed a way to make it so the player had a chance. So, you get cheesy bulwark and sensor lock/LRM spam to even things out. It's terrible.

They did such a good job with Shadowrun, but completely dropped the ball with this one, which sucks.

edit: Even in the table top game, you needed to have a spotter unit with line of sight on the enemy and your to hit modifies were a combination of the spotter and firing unit. It gave the poor victim a chance. The tabletop wanted combat to be in your face mech action, that's why you have weird range limits like ac/20s having a max range of 270 meters, which is ridiculous for a large caliber cannon. They just tossed all of that out with this mess and made a gimicky Xcom reboot clone.

Does anyone play the multiplayer? I never bothered because I figured it would be awful and I'd rather go play Mechwarrior Living Legends than sit through turn after turn of LRM spam knockdowns and the like. At least if I get hit or miss with my shots it's my own damn fault and not some RNG nonsense that can be exploited by gimicky and poorly implemented pilot skills.

Another "mechwarrior" twitch skill/ relfexes = leet skillz. This game uses "brainzzzzsss" :P

And another "mechwarrior" that lacks reading comprehension. There are no 'twitch' skills or reflexes referenced. In fact, there in nothing in BATTLETECH (that I have experienced) that involves twitch gaming.

The OP made a fair and common sence point regarding the inability to toggle between indirect or direct fire. I'm not going to make a judgement on the fact that the game is set up in such way that indirect fire can be more accurate than direct fire....it is what it is. But, it is absurd from both an realistic view, and a game design/development view, that you are forced into direct fire if indirect has less of a malus. The game should either default to the lowest malus, or give the player the option.

I have played TT since 1992, MegaMek for I don't remember how long, as well as the various computer incarnations. I have never encountered a situation where I was forced to take a greater malus than what was the best shot available. To be fair, there has never been a time in TT or MM that the indirect fire penalty was LESS than the direct fire penalty. SMH