My NEW problem with the Roguetech Mod

[B3A5T0FWAR]

First and foremost: If you have not played the Roguetech mod yet, this discussion may not be relevant to you. Just saying :)

Ok. Here is my issue:

In the most recent update for the Roguetech mod (updated for Battletech 1.2), they included a new Critical damage system, where Crits can go through PAST YOUR ARMOR. THIS SUCKS SO MUCH.

Why?

Think of it this way: You have a Marauder with a RAC5 as your frontline Damage soaker. You are making it facehug a Black Knight 7B (X-Pulse Laser variant), and it crits your RAC5. The RAC explodes and destroys your frontliner's Engine.

I JUST HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME. My Marauder had FULL ARMOR, and it gets DESTROYED in ONE VOLLEY.

Idk if this is the right area to be posting this at (i highly doubt it is), but if the Roguetech Developers are looking at this: PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD IN THE WORLD, REMOVE THIS CRIT SYSTEM!!!!!\

EDIT: I am fully aware that Roguetech is supposed to make the game Harder, but this is just outright ridiculous

[your.sheepy]

pascal.difolco eredeti hozzászólása:

And how to keep it but change the threshold?

Right above "ThroughArmorCritChanceZeroArmor" or "CritChanceZeroArmor". See the setting "ThroughArmorCritThreshold".

[pascal.difolco]

Thanks you vm
and how to reswitch to removable evasion pips?

[your.sheepy]

pascal.difolco eredeti hozzászólása:

Thanks you vm
and how to reswitch to removable evasion pips?

I think that is part of CBT Movement. As far as I know, there is no way to disable it without throwing its other features out with the mod, such as allowing fire after sprint. You can try to request a feature on its github page if you have an account:

https://github.com/McFistyBuns/CBTMovement

[Edmon]

your.sheepy eredeti hozzászólása:

Edmon eredeti hozzászólása:

I hate through armour criticals. They just add randomness to the game and nothing more. As a strategy gamer, I hate randomness because it means the best player does not always win.

Which, IMO, should always be the case.

You're in luck. The same setting file also allow you to set these to remove more randomness to make BattleTech closer to your dream:

// Make called shot mostly non-random and always hit the called location
"MechCalledShotMultiplier": 1000,
"VehicleCalledShotMultiplier": 1000,

// Set hit chance to 100% so that it is impossible to miss
"MaxFinalHitChance": 1,
"MinFinalHitChance": 1,

// Disable TAC (new version)
"CritChanceZeroArmor": 0,
"CritChanceFullArmor": 0,

// Disable TAC (old version)
"ThroughArmorCritChanceZeroArmor": 0,
"ThroughArmorCritChanceFullArmor": 0,

// Disable normal critical hits (new version only; if you don't see the settings in the file there is no use adding them)
"CritChanceMin": 0,
"CritChanceMax": 0,


I sincerely hope that removing randomness will really make your day.

I already know how to remove them and in the TT people have been house ruling them out ever since they were introduced. They are not a part of my current playthrough.

The trouble is that the author and a few others really like them, since they are TT and everything TT is always "a good thing".

Which is fine, but just like TT, the majority hate them and just like TT, casual players who are the life blood of the community bleed away because they can't work out how to switch them off (editing random .jsons are beyond them and there is no simple option to disable them.) or back in the TT days, the "super nerds, gatekeepers of the one true battletech" would insist on using them.

They have since been toned down in Roguetech, but they have never been anything that a majority has actually enjoyed. They always feel like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, even on the giving or recieving end and used to envoke apologies from other players more than anything else back in the day.

It is what it is, I love Roguetech and play it all the time, but this will hurt it's popularity and that's bad for all of us.

[pascal.difolco]

What would be really supercool would be to be able to switch or adjust rules in game settings rather than json editing... Given the high tech skills of RT guys it shouldn't be very hard for them...

[your.sheepy]

pascal.difolco eredeti hozzászólása:

What would be really supercool would be to be able to switch or adjust rules in game settings rather than json editing... Given the high tech skills of RT guys it shouldn't be very hard for them...

Not hard, true. But it takes time to do nonetheless. And making new toys is usually more interesting than polishing old toys.

For example, my mod AIM alone has very close to 100 settings, many of them pretty arcane and delicate like "a csv row of colours" or "a csv row of melee attack modifiers". Should they be presented as an array of color swash picker and a long list of checkboxes? I guess I won't be the one coding it. Considerable effort has already been put on the setting file to improve user experience such as comments, self-updates, auto-migrates, and documenting the settings in the mod's readme.

And then there is the problem that settings are saved in preference and RT always ask you to reset everything including preference. Fancy checking and updating 100 settings everytime and try to remember which one is new?

[Direbear]

Well, you can recieve heat shot from any weapon with damage above 60 and you are dead. At least there are some defense against TACs. You should use CASE and this will save your mech.

As I remember in tabletop you had 1% chance to recieve at least one through armor crit (without armor piercing ammo). This value looks small but in fact you see this crits pretty often.

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

lol wait wait


So the RT people are just duct taping together other people's coding work? They don't actually make the stuff themselves?

No wonder they're so hostile to suggestions; they wouldn't even know how to fix anything if they wanted to.

...Somehow this seems appropriate given the source material.

[Sinsling]

themidnightfoundation eredeti hozzászólása:

lol wait wait


So the RT people are just duct taping together other people's coding work? They don't actually make the stuff themselves?

No wonder they're so hostile to suggestions; they wouldn't even know how to fix anything if they wanted to.

...Somehow this seems appropriate given the source material.

Correct, it is a large list of mods working together. I would hope they have consent from the original authors of the mods.

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

themidnightfoundation eredeti hozzászólása:

lol wait wait


So the RT people are just duct taping together other people's coding work? They don't actually make the stuff themselves?

No wonder they're so hostile to suggestions; they wouldn't even know how to fix anything if they wanted to.

...Somehow this seems appropriate given the source material.

Correct, it is a large list of mods working together. I would hope they have consent from the original authors of the mods.

Color me skeptical that they were so ethical given how they react to even the most polite & mundane criticism.

[Sinsling]

themidnightfoundation eredeti hozzászólása:

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

Correct, it is a large list of mods working together. I would hope they have consent from the original authors of the mods.

Color me skeptical that they were so ethical given how they react to even the most polite & mundane criticism.

well, they're up on nexusmods, and i know the original authors can claim use without consent.So... maybe?

[esilva9]

in the TT i remember there where a chance of crit in the hit location table but it associates all weapons, you have to roll a "2" on 2d6 to hit a torso section with critical, depending on facing but i have noticed alot of critical damage in the game. i was lucky my stock Black Jack is the only one that got a side blown off from a single Uac/10 hit. if they are going to do that they should put the critical system as well i would love to see tanks immobolized from a volley or an ammo explosion.

[Napoleonic S]

Another idea is to tie the armor piercing crit to, duh, the armor piercing ammo system/mechanics.

Duh?

Or also tie it to some high single damage weapons?

[President Jyrgunkarrd]

TAC is just bad. It is bad in TT and it is bad in the video game.

In TT, TAC was just a flavor mechanic & busywork, added because that was the sort of minutia that characterized games like BattleTech back then. TAC in the video game is just adding this throwback to the TT system while completely missing the mark on the math; nobody could've possibly playtested RogueTech and thought, 'Yeah, 1 in 4 shots bypassing all armor seems about right.'

I mean, what does TAC add? Armor is there to provide a risk/reward system where the player has to balance offensive capabilities against robustness. Crits & components are there to really magnify the risk to players who over-emphasize their weapons systems while stripping armor.

TAC makes this formula more interesting or more dynamic in what way? I shoot you and roll a 4 sided die, if I roll a 4 I ignore your armor and probably destroy a component no matter how you have chosen to set your offense vs defense scales. How is this more interesting than what was already there?

LadyAlekto flips out, calls you an idiot & offers advice like, 'buy spalling lining' if you ask her a question like this, never actually answering the fundamental question. And the advice only further demonstrates the issue, because if what TAC really offers is 'buy equipment that negates the effect' then it adds literally nothing. It's just a C-Bill & crit slot tax you must pay on your mechs if you care about the components as well as a further level of player optimization that allows you to steamroll the mid-late game even harder.

[your.sheepy]

The chance of tabletop TAC is 2.8% per hit, but there is another 58% chance for the crit to fail. Final chance is around 1.5%.

Some players like TAC, some don't, and I think there is no single setting that will make everyone happy.

For my mods, I have been asked for consent and have given it. LadyAleko also does mod coding and read other mod's code.

The RT modders generally tend to their own mods, but there are occasions where we work together to make things work and compatible with each other. Attitude and tuning aside, RT does facilitate modding and cooperations.