The mystery of the Vindicator loadout

[chryckis]

Can someone explain the following weirdness to me.

I run a Vindicator as my go to flanker/sniper with a PPC, ML and a LRM10 (since the single missile hardpoit prevents me from using 2 lrm5)

And while it really shines in the early game so far, I want to find a way to up gun and up armor it by getting bigger mech with a similar loadout.

Except after quite sometime experimenting in the mech lab I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible. In fact, no larger mech until you hit the 65 ton class can even pull off the Vindi's current load out, much less an improved one.

I've tried giving them the vindi's exact loadout, the same exact amount of armour everywhere, the same weapon and ammo loadouts, the same number of JJs and heatsinks. And no 50 to 60 ton mech can pull it off. Most is atleast 1 ton overweight. (The 55 tonners can pull off something similar if you use 2xlrm5 instead of an lrm10).

Thus the wierdness of my 45 ton mech being able to have more armor and firepower even with a suboptimal build than all the bigger mech up to 65 ton.

[Thamalandis]

Heatsinks and Jumpjets are heavier on bigger mechs, as is armour. So the "real" free load is fully different, even though some of them can carry 13 tons more. You already lose around 2t for Jumpjets etc.

That being said, a 2D Shadowhawk would beat your Vindicator in its own class. And I am sure a Grasshopper would be able to replace him in the heavies. If you can live without that useless LRM (take a dedicated LRM mech and don't stuff your main mechs as redmages), then use a Black Knight.

[GinReaper]

Heatsinks and armor weigh the same regardless of mech size. Jumpjets do weigh more (.5 0-55, 1 60-85, 2 85+ AFAIK)

The issue is most mediums move 5/8 which means a heavier engine. The Vindicator and Blackjack move 4/6 so you can load them out with more stuff. The Griffin 1N has a PPC and LRM-10 combo as a stock build and that is a 55 T mech. The issue is that it overheats easily.

[Devil Tiger X]

Yeah the Vinnies were designed to a Medium workhorse. Later on you get Thunderbolt, a 65ton mech than can mount a comparable loudout with good armour. The TDR-5SE even comes with jump jets stock. They appear all the time a little later on so they'll be easy to salvage and feel like line troopers mid-game. Not as mobile as the Vin though.

I think the Vinnie is just the best at what it does in it's class. Which is to say abit of everything. The Wolverine can snipe with an AC5 but they feel like tankier Shadow Hawks.
There's the Griffin GRF-1N but I find them too under-gunned for their weight and just kinda... limited. I dunno...

[Thamalandis]

Yeah, Griffin / Shadowhawk / Kintaro / Wolverine all beat the Vindicator in speed + loadout. But that is in the same class as mentioned.

Kintaro at least has enough missile slots to make a 5x5LRM strategy viable... if you need a rocket boat other than a Centurion with LRM20 + 2x5LRM.

[Mohrrunkel]

You won't get more free weight for armament (assuming you equip full armor on all) until you hit the 65t mechs, due to above mentioned reasons.

If you have MS Excel you can download an filter this sheet for basegame mechs (last collumn). There you can see for yourself (column G - Tons equip):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yUqA1CJabsT1rtSRFsJxejjW4CkuEEHJqQcxkBJk6rM/edit?usp=sharing

[Wantoomany]

The Vindy is 4/6 mech for speed. None of the 55 ton or 60 ton mechs move 4/6. They are all 5/8 mechs with big engines and less useable tonnage. You have to get up to 65 tons to see other 4/6 speed mech options.

A Centurion AL should get you what you want. A standard Centurion A or Hunchback will have the useable space but not the hard points.

[Mistfox]

It's less due to the Vindicator and more to the fact that in the weight range you are looking for, the Quickdraw and Dragon suck. You yourself pointed it out, the 55 tonners can do it, but once you hit the 'speedy' heavies, their huge engine becomes a liability in terms of weapon payload.

[MortVent]

Plus you got to remember the vindicator was a post star league model built to provide a good all around utility trooper mech.

a cheap trooper mech, hence the multirole build and reduced speed. Makes it a great utility mech.

I usually drop the ppc for a large laser and a couple heat sinks and some armor for the small laser