Bulwark vs Evasive Movement?

[Zombait]

I am pretty early in on the campaign and I can't trying to decide which ability is better out of Bulwark or Evasive Movement for mid-heavy mechs when getting to the mid-late game. I have looked on other forums and it seems to be split opinion on which one is better.

On a side note does anyone have any builds which use the skill 'Master Tactician' since I always seems like your wasting a skill to get to that ability. For example it would be a good idea to give a scout both Evasive Movement and Sensor Lock. However, since a scout will have high Initiative your better off choosing Ace Pilot over Master Tactician. Alternatively someone piloting an assault mech would benefit with Master Tactician since it will raise their initiative, but sensor lock would be almost useless since you would want to have the assault mech, would most likely be your lead mech.

[Straybow]

I found that Master Tactician becomes useful when fielding/fighting assault mechs as it allows the easier use of the knockdown and dogpile technique :)
I'm not sure thats enough to justify its usage for all pilots though.

[L37]

IMO bulwark is more usefull in most cases. I mean, reliable -50% damage vs extra evasion charge in case you move to give you some chance to evade some shots (greatly reduced by enemy pilot skills). Even if bulwark is not constantly used, having it as an option is more usefull IMO.

[AbsynthMinded]

Evasion is weak past Early Mid Game. In the earlier missions with lighter mechs not able to Tank, Evasion wins. With Heavy and Assults, Bulwark is better point for point.

Bulwark can be overcome with Breaching alone, but Evasion is like Ablative Armor, anything can diminish it in time. Just normal fire, every attack. Additionally, Evasion can be entirely erased if you can put the Target into Unstable, no matter how many evasion points it has.

[Senkoau]

General opinion I think is Bulwark because evasion gets stripped away with every attack and you'll often find yourself facing 2 or 3 enemy lances to your 1. So they'll quickly strip away your defensive benefits (and seem to make the shot anyway). Bulwakr on the other hand is a guranteed 50% reduction to damage and stability damage from every attack.

[chong.ong]

Originally posted by Zombait:

I am pretty early in on the campaign and I can't trying to decide which ability is better out of Bulwark or Evasive Movement for mid-heavy mechs when getting to the mid-late game. I have looked on other forums and it seems to be split opinion on which one is better.

On a side note does anyone have any builds which use the skill 'Master Tactician' since I always seems like your wasting a skill to get to that ability. For example it would be a good idea to give a scout both Evasive Movement and Sensor Lock. However, since a scout will have high Initiative your better off choosing Ace Pilot over Master Tactician. Alternatively someone piloting an assault mech would benefit with Master Tactician since it will raise their initiative, but sensor lock would be almost useless since you would want to have the assault mech, would most likely be your lead mech.

In my opinion, Master Tactician + Bulwark is the best combination overall.

Reserve until Turn 1, then you get 2 moves before the enemy (of similar mech type) can react (eg: allowing you to knock enemies down or do called shots).

It's true that once you have both Master Tactician + Bulwark with eg: a King Crab - Sensor Lock isn't that useful for that pilot. But it's still the best combination as Master Tactician + Bulwark is so powerful.


Alternatively, Master Tactician + Evasive also works well for a scout.

- Jump (with high evasion) into a forest (and sensor lock) out of visibility, or jump (with high evasion) and brace.

- Next turn, reserve until Turn 1 (enemies might hit you but do very little damage). Note that you have the ability (earlier in the Turn) to jump backwards (out of visibility) and Sensor Lock.

- You then get 2 moves before the enemy moves (similar as above).

[IRMcG]

Bulwark only works when you don't move, and how often does that happen ?

[AbsynthMinded]

Originally posted by chong.ong:

Originally posted by Zombait:

I am pretty early in on the campaign and I can't trying to decide which ability is better out of Bulwark or Evasive Movement for mid-heavy mechs when getting to the mid-late game. I have looked on other forums and it seems to be split opinion on which one is better.

On a side note does anyone have any builds which use the skill 'Master Tactician' since I always seems like your wasting a skill to get to that ability. For example it would be a good idea to give a scout both Evasive Movement and Sensor Lock. However, since a scout will have high Initiative your better off choosing Ace Pilot over Master Tactician. Alternatively someone piloting an assault mech would benefit with Master Tactician since it will raise their initiative, but sensor lock would be almost useless since you would want to have the assault mech, would most likely be your lead mech.

In my opinion, Master Tactician + Bulwark is the best combination overall.

Reserve until Turn 1, then you get 2 moves before the enemy (of similar mech type) can react (eg: allowing you to knock enemies down or do called shots).

It's true that once you have both Master Tactician + Bulwark with eg: a King Crab - Sensor Lock isn't that useful for that pilot. But it's still the best combination as Master Tactician + Bulwark is so powerful.


Alternatively, Master Tactician + Evasive also works well for a scout.

- Jump (with high evasion) into a forest (and sensor lock) out of visibility, or jump (with high evasion) and brace.

- Next turn, reserve until Turn 1 (enemies might hit you but do very little damage).

- You then get 2 moves before the enemy moves (similar as above).

And then conceptulaize the application of one or two Mechs using Vigilance on top of that..

Assults going in phase 1 then 3.. Or a Scout with max evasion and Entrenched, going back to back. Tho decision making in a Scout that way can lead to many varied results because you think you have so many options and you're just so covered. But you're still in a Scout role, Mr. Squishy.

[chong.ong]

Originally posted by IRMcG:

Bulwark only works when you don't move, and how often does that happen ?

Very often.

I typically run with 3 x long ranged mechs and 1 ''Scout''. (Or 1 ''Scout'', one mixed range and 2 long range).

The long ranged mechs would have eg: (AC5 + LRMs), (lots of LRMS), (Gauss + AC5 + LRMS) etc.

The ''Scout'' Mech would jump around and Sensor Lock. The other 3 would typically stand still and hit at long range.

[L37]

Originally posted by IRMcG:

Bulwark only works when you don't move, and how often does that happen ?

It depends on specific situation, having an option to stay still and get guarded is usefull very often though...
And evasion on assaults with high skill enemy pilots is very questionable defence. It is not very effective even when you jump, and even less so when you have to walk (mostly because of heat constraints)...

[Atma]

Originally posted by IRMcG:

Bulwark only works when you don't move, and how often does that happen ?

As often as you want it to?

The enemy ai comes straight at you, so once you're in weapons range, you can just spin your mech so the front armor is facing enemies while alpha striking them into dust and taking half damage from return fire.

If you need to move, you can still do that and not be worse off than another pilot, especially at max skills.

[Kanjejou]

evasio pip shouldn't be reduced by being shotted at.

[Nine-ball]

As others have mentioned, I haven't found evasion to be very useful late game. It's pretty typical for me to jump a maxed-out pilot, get five or more evasion pips, and then wonder why I ever bothered because they just get hit by every damn thing for miles around, anyway.

There are players who make evasion work with timing and positioning, but I'm not one of them. Every single one of my mechwarriors, with the exception of Glitch, is a Vanguard. Sensor Lock, Master Tactician, and Bulwark. Shooting first and taking less damage in return is just too big of an advantage to ignore.

Vanguard lances also offer the ability to rotate out damaged mechs and keep them relatively safe while still fighting tooth and nail against heavy opposition. They're particularly useful when Darius inevitably ****s up the forecast and it turns out that there is a 100% of heavy missile showers, interspersed with artificial lightning and autocannon thunder.

Any Vanguard caught by surprise under such a bombardment can often get to safety before the next salvo proves to be more rapey than Zeus himself.

[sLick]

bulwark and vigilance are great and once you get gyros those help with evasion. in the later game my flanker and skirmisher seem to have lost their usefulness. now i use my lancer, vanguard, and brawler with my recon for scout. if i want an lrm boat i use a striker.

[Rodrigo]

Bulwark for the big guys, maybe evasive for smaller ones or grasshopper. Understand that bulwark doubles you armor on the most likely to hit spots... laser vomit hunchies or LRM boats will deal very low dmg and that 100 DMG AC20 will hurt much much less dealing 50 damage, not only that, the stability resistance will most likely keep your mech from being downed and called for a CT destruction, get some morale, move ahead and vigilance, and you're ready to be a god be damned wall of steel able to simply shrug off the entire enemy lance of damage for several rounds.

Assaults and heavies generates too little evasive pips moving and firing... and even when you sprint, each shot removes a pip, the front line guys are likely to be focused by everything they have, and even worse if they have reinforcements LRM barring your ass, bulwark is your best friend.

[Stardust]

Originally posted by Kanjejou:

evasio pip shouldn't be reduced by being shotted at.

That would make me consider using it for fun because assault mechs can only get like 3 max pip with move/jump so it is still crap in late game.
Don't pick Evasive unless you want to punish/challenge yourself.