Medium Laser question

[cdarracq]

What are the opinions on Medium Lasers when concerning +++
Is +10 damage better than +50% and +3 accuracy?

[Cat]

situational really. If you find most shots you are taking are at 90-95% chance to hit then damage modifier weapons are better then accuracy.
Though i do like hitting crits/ blowing up ammo and taking half the mech with it speeds things up nicely.

[Jexvrok]

for me it depends on the roll of the mech i am putting it on with what pilot i will have with it. in my mech hunting grasshopper i would go damage seeing that i am usually putting out piles of firepower, that little bit extra helps take down even bigger stuff.
something like a blackknight that is hitting something with ppc, if they are cracking open armor with it, the bonus crit and accuracy is useful from shooting at a distance, the bonus accuracy will also help with those pesky light mechs like the firestarted.

[cdarracq]

I use a Medium Laser build on 3 mechs:

Grasshopper
Black Knight
Battlemaster

So far the Battlemaster has been the most effective - 6 M Lasers, 2 Small lasers and a SRM 6+++. It's speed on foot and max jump jets is close to both the Hopper and Knight. Having the SRMs allows for knockdown and added strength to head hits.

The Black Knight is in 2nd due to armor level and the 10 total lasers. The Grasshopper got retired due to being mauled so easily.

I do see a lot of ammo explosions with my attacks that take the enemy mech out in a brilliant cascade of fire, but I wasn't sure which is best because it's currently a 50-50 mix.

[Pherdnut]

Crits are bad for salvaging but instant death against parts with ammo in them when parts with stripped armor get hit and ammo explosions can trigger ammo explosions in adjacent parts. They lead to the occasional one-hit kill and destroy a lot of equipment. Since I still don't have a dozen + of every possible weapon, that's not interesting to me. Also, if you want crits, machine guns get +75% as a default. If you have support slots and want crits let the MGs trigger crits while other weapons do higher damage to get through armor faster. Even without the part concern, heavy damage is the most reliable way to kill very fast in this game. Better to mix some crit bonuses in than devote all your guns to it.

Lasers already have an accuracy bonus. I'd rather add a TTS if more accuracy were important to me. In late-game, it's pretty well covered but it might be nice if more light mechs were running around. A miss with an L Laser is more expensive so it's nice to have the +3 on those (unlike Ms they can get accuracy AND +10 dam) but mediums hit pretty reliably with experienced pilots.

In most cases, I prefer the +10 damage. Especially on a mech with a lot of mLasers. That's a big damage upgrade compared to a normal AC/20 moving to a +++. Especially on something like a grasshopper.

Keep in mind, lasers spread a lot in the early game but in the late game, most of them will hit one part if it has a good called shot chance (most do other than the head with called shot mastery and a good facing). There's nothing silly about an assault brawler like a Battlemaster with jump-4 and a whole bunch of mLasers ++es. That's 7 tons + heat sinks reliably hitting one part for more damage than an AC/20 would at a longer range. No knockback though.

[Doombringer]

Originally posted by Pherdnut:

machine guns get +75% as a default.

check the .json, it only gets +50%.

I always go with 35 damage medium lasers.
Crits don't happen often enough to make +50%crit better than +40% damage.
Later in the game you rarely see light mechs and your pilots have 10 gunnery, so +to hit doesn't help as much either. (You can add TTS if you need more though.)

Random Note: it seems holly++ SRM6s get an unmentioned +5 to hit bonus (they should only get a damage bonus)
(It is in the json file, and you get the bonus in combat...)

[Pherdnut]

Originally posted by Doombringer:

Originally posted by Pherdnut:

machine guns get +75% as a default.

check the .json, it only gets +50%.

I always go with 35 damage medium lasers.
Crits don't happen often enough to make +50%crit better than +40% damage.
Later in the game you rarely see light mechs and your pilots have 10 gunnery, so +to hit doesn't help as much either. (You can add TTS if you need more though.)

Random Note: it seems holly++ SRM6s get an unmentioned +5 to hit bonus (they should only get a damage bonus)
(It is in the json file, and you get the bonus in combat...)

What is it with game devs and not going to the same source as the one that actually applies to the game mechanic for what they report in the UI? Makes me crazy. Why be a pain in your own ass every time something changes?

[ImHelping]

I find it down to what your goals are really. With a side of luck based logic or what your overall weaponry is.

The case for +Crit.

Loadout wise: If you have hole punchers, any ballistic but the AC2 or a PPC for example. Then the fact medium lasers fire last mean they are the ones that will be hitting internals after a salvo.

Or on something like a Grasshopper with 7 medium lasers. Pure murphy's law meant I kept failing to cook off ammo with my +Damage medium lasers. Then I switched over to +CRIT and the amount of times I instantly murdered a thunderbolt by cooking off their CT ammo skyrocketed.

You can't go wrong with + damage on a medium laser though. +damage medium lasers are the safe option. As fond as I am of my results with +Crit lasers, I'm still self aware about them being a niche perk over a universal perk. +5 or +10 damage adds up on multiple lasers.

+ACC I value more on holepunchers than lasers. Medium lasers are either your token afterthought weapons, or you are spamming them so you are better off making the most of the lasers that hit.

But an AC20, with it's 5 ammo per ton and notable weight investment? When I switched from +DMG to a +4 ACC one I had laying around collecting dust. OH MAN. Terrible shots out of effective range and/or against evasive targets were now in a 60-80% hit territory. Or earlier in the game when your pilots do not have enough guts/gunnery to counter the refire penalty.

So that meant more taking shots and hoping for the best (and thus, more lucky rando headshots on a 60% roll). Rather than spending a turn not firing my giant murder gun against a mech that would close to their own effective AC20 range next round.

[Rané]

One thing you can do with Acc + weapons is a training Mech. You could build a brawler with a lot of acc + med lasers and possibly a TTS for a purpose of taking a rookie pilot along with your top-tier lance as then the Gunnery 2 skill will actually hit something.

Not sure if it is a good idea to use med lasers though. The gutless rookie can't handle the heat. I use TTS equipped Catapult-K with twin AC/10++ (acc +4) for training and the rookie never misses, no matter what the gunnery skill is.

[Nine-ball]

I always go for +damage when I can get it. All your primary pilots are going to be excellent shots and almost never miss. The salvage work I do doesn't need more accuracy than a called shot, because I never go for the head. In three playthroughs, I have yet to make even one called headshot. So I said **** it, and went for the legs, knockdowns, side torso destructions, etc.

But there's another reason to go +damage, and that's post-game. Facing nine assault mechs, you want to be able to take most of them out as quickly as possible, before their numbers really start to press you. If you need to do a little less damage for salvaging once you've got breathing room, you can always turn some of them off.

[zAcEz]

+ Acc only helps it hitting the target.

Called shots work differently in that the only way you can improve chance to hit a part is with higher tactics skill.

[kknd]

Originally posted by cdarracq:

What are the opinions on Medium Lasers when concerning +++
Is +10 damage better than +50% and +3 accuracy?

Lot of good logic, advise and experience in this thread, but I'll toss in my views on it.

+10 damage is rock solid, flat out, better weapon in all situations to the default.

+Accuracy is useful for hitting high evasion and/or low tonnage targets, but matters none if your to hit is already good. On an AC where it can negate recoil without high guts, or to make your highly limited ammo more effective (AC/20 I'm looking at you.) Accuracy is solid. Even on something that's a can opener with high heat per shot and long range (PPC, LARGE LASERS holy god those specifically) accuracy can have some value.

+Crit only matters when the weapon hits internal structure, it only matters if there is a component in that area to break. That's a pair of conditionals that is not uncommon, but very much underpreforms unless you are looking for something to exploit holes already punched.

So, a SRM that has +crit is a solid investment if it's following up a PPC hit, since the PPC blows open a hole and the SRM then exploits that hole to wreck something internal even if only a couple of missiles land where you need them.

MachineGuns are the kings of this, since they fire multiple shots with independent location hit rolls and already have increased critical chance. But of course MG's have 90 meter range.

So bottom line: If you have to choose on a ML boat or a mech that's using ML's as it's secondary weaponry, go damage first, crit second, accuracy third. Unless it's going to be piloted by a low gunnary pilot and/or it's job is hunting light mechs. In those situations Accuracy, Damage, Critical.

[Kurnn]

Medium Lasers are the overlooked OP setup in battletech. Even the ones without +++, does havoc for a very cheap price.

Weapon damage have different effect depending what they hit, and the chance to hit.
A good rule is to have one mech with LRMs, and attack the same target. The knockdown is great and then the shooting on a mech that down, get lots of bonus to hit.

Do not listen to anyone telling you weapon A isnt good.

AC guns are fantastic. The AC/2 range is huuuge and does good damage + knockback. And you can do that from range where the enemy cant shoot you back.

[DROPbear]

isnt ML +++ +10dmg +3Acc. ?

for ML i prefer +10dmg over accuracy. By Default lasers have a -1 accuracy boost.

crits type weapons arent really useful in SP campaign. you need to strip their armor before any crits could be applied, which is not easy when you get swarm by x2-3 AI targets

[Kurnn]

Originally posted by y3ivan:

isnt ML +++ +10dmg +3Acc. ?

for ML i prefer +10dmg over accuracy. By Default lasers have a -1 accuracy boost.

All +++ are different. +++ isnt always +4 damage for example. The + is the amounth of bonuses.
One + = 1 bonus, like +2 damage
Two + = 2 bonuses, which can be any combinations

[DROPbear]

another note;

+crits only useful for barrage type weapons. LRM/SRM/MG. It increases the chances of hitting multiple equipements.