good tanky mechs that aren't assaults?

[AAA]

title

oh, and their builds?

[:WTF: Grendel]

Thunderbolt... Orion is also nice (more used for LRM boating lol)

T-Bolts are my preferred Mech platform for Heavies. Well rounded, decent max armor, fairly heat efficient for builds.

[Beric01]

Orion is the best heavy mech, hands down. Its the best AC20 platforms, the best brawler, the best tank, the best LRM boat.

[L37]

Black knight.
Build - a lot of ML-s, JJ-s, max armor, a lot of heatsinks. Also grasshopper, with added flamers for fun or SL-s/MG-s for damage.
Orion is good, but personally i find "single AC20" configuration a bit underwhelming, and it does not have hardpoints to avoid using AC20 as brawler.

[Longtoke]

Orion is good but its a bit slower than i'd like personally, Thunderbolts are great, Grasshopper is slightly less tanky but the added close range damage capability is just gold.

I have all three and still default to the Grasshopper with 6 x ML and 6 x MG's, Jump jets, Max armour, fill whats left with heatsinks. Runs slightly hot if you only use it to shoot, but thats what makes it such a great melee heavy.

[ImHelping]

Orion was the assault mech before there were assault mechs, so yes putting an AC20 onto it totally works out. With tonnage to spare for jump jets.

AC20 is only bad on the Orion if you're a baby who thinks the only correct Orion build is hiding your biggest heavy mech in the back row with LRM launchers, then have the nerve to brag about it.

AC20 takes more actual skill to use and come out on top, which is why the faux hardcores look down on it.

Grasshopper while less "tanky" still makes for a wonderful brawler and backstabber. Mass MG lets you alpha outside of melee more often, but once you have high enough guts for max heat threshold a bunch of small lasers on top of the Medium lasers can work wonders.

Mass srms are very strong, no doubt about that. But even with called shot you have to worry about murphy's law for clustering. See also, watching a Firestarter or Manticore tank live through a 70 LRM salvo.

Which is how you can watch a mech with literally twice the alpha fail to kill a demilsher compared to one with a proper hole puncher.

Both AC20 and mass SRMs are great. But you have to be realistic about the shortcomings BOTH have. Not claim one is full stop superior to the other.

[Pherdnut]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1fnaqQv8nnYpy9gtQm75-D6fmYfNJ5u3OALSIe8ckOuo/htmlview?sle=true#

Tankage pretty much climbs with tonnage but with some exceptions. 60 Ton Heavies are squishier than 55 mediums. 20 more max armor doesn't beat more space through half-weight jumpjets and a natural -1 to hit heavies don't have. This is why Dragons and QDs are kind of meh. They're not really an upgrade in survivability, can't really carry more stuff if you have jumpjets (you should for most roles). And they're easier to hit.

Also with evasion, more jumpjets makes a big difference, but that only gets interesting in the assault class where a max JJ assault with gyro defense +3 can pretty much ignore an entire LRM salvo at 5 evade and there's upper and lower weight assaults with that. Also lighter JJs are available to 85 ton and less in the assaults. Only the crappy heavies get 5 and they pay more in tonnage than heavy mediums.

[DarkFenix]

Orion, Orion, and Orion. Not sure how anyone here is complaining about its mobility, when it's identical in that regard to all other heavies except the 60 tonners and their oversized engines. Between the two variants its hardpoints cover any practical loadout you could possibly want and it has the tonnage to use even the heaviest weapons properly.

The only specialties the Orion doesn't cover are energy and support weapon spam, but in that case you have the Black Knight, identical in all regards except hardpoints.

[:WTF: Grendel]

Originally posted by TheWorld:

The AC20 noobishness that a LOT of people in this forum preach has to stop. It does not belong on anything that's not assault since it has very bad DMG/TON ratio compared to SRM and ML.

Yeah... my CN9-A Centurion would like to disagree. I have this setup just like my YLW in MWO, 2ML, 1 AC20... maxed armor, no JJs... When I was still using Mediums in my playthrough, that was my Brawler. Either that loadout, or 2 SRM6, 1 AC5, 2 ML with as much armor I can stuff and 2 heatsinks.

I'm not the type of person to spam LRMs all day at targets... I have 2 Mechs usually setup for Indirect/Direct fire support (Hammer) while the other 2 are my infighters (Anvil). The varied loadouts my Mechs carry compliment the Lance overall (and are still kinda BT-ish lol not "meta").

[ImHelping]

Take the classic Yen Low cent. Now imagine it "Bigger. Meaner. Also with jumpjets and 15 ammo" and you've got yourself an AC20 Orion. (Victor acting in the assault phase without master tactics makes that assault more niche compared to bigger assaults)

Adjust M laser vs spare heatsnks count up or down based on how much you want a meaner alpha vs firing and jump jetting every single turn.

[Rané]

Thunderbolt. SS is my fav, but all models are good.

Fully loaded with maxed out Med lasers, small lasers, SRM4s + full jump jets the T-Bolt SS can still mount enough heat sinks to keep the heat in reasonable range. It has armor and speed to close-in with any type of target making range non-issue.

Grasshopers and BlackKnights are good, but 'Hopper has no "tipping" weapons to KD unstable enemies (unless you mount PPC) and Knight overheats too easily, making it bad choice in some biomes.

[ImHelping]

The Hopper's tipping weapon is it's FIST, or a DFA if you are feeling sassy to core out the rear of a highlander with a dropkick followed by your choice of six machinegun spam or small laser disco.

Remember kids, in HBS Btech land support weapons fire alongside Melee. Hopper in particular does 90 on a punch (Black knight does 95, but it's less suitable for punchfests).

[Kurnn]

Orion, best tank ever.

[Beric01]

Originally posted by TheWorld:

The AC20 noobishness that a LOT of people in this forum preach has to stop. It does not belong on anything that's not assault since it has very bad DMG/TON ratio compared to SRM and ML.

Damage/ton is irrelevant if that damage is spread out all over the mech. What matters is if you can do the damage in one specific place - for example, to cause an ammo explosion or knock off a leg or arm or do a headshot. And the best weapon for focused damage is the AC20, hands down.

[Pherdnut]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

Mass srms are very strong, no doubt about that. But even with called shot you have to worry about murphy's law for clustering. See also, watching a Firestarter or Manticore tank live through a 70 LRM salvo.

SRMs are not LRMs. Each one is ilke an individual attack. A 20 SRM boat has a very good chance of popping a head at 16-18%. They're freaking powerful and about the same range as mLasers.

Originally posted by :WTF: Grendel:

Yeah... my CN9-A Centurion would like to disagree. I have this setup just like my YLW in MWO, 2ML, 1 AC20... maxed armor, no JJs...

No jumpjets? As in no jump over their head and face their rear-arc in one move jumpjets? On a way-slower-than-jump-4-walking medium with an AC/20? I like mLasers but every time an earlier game pilot misses with that AC/20 it's just two of 'em. If you have jumpjets and don't miss from a better angle, they're dead. But you'll miss. that's annoying. I get that. But this is an eggs in one basket build. Commit!

[Longtoke]

Originally posted by Beric01:

Originally posted by TheWorld:

The AC20 noobishness that a LOT of people in this forum preach has to stop. It does not belong on anything that's not assault since it has very bad DMG/TON ratio compared to SRM and ML.

Damage/ton is irrelevant if that damage is spread out all over the mech. What matters is if you can do the damage in one specific place - for example, to cause an ammo explosion or knock off a leg or arm or do a headshot. And the best weapon for focused damage is the AC20, hands down.

+1

I use a Hunchback with an AC20 and 2x SL, just for its mobility. Land it behind any mech ( including assualts ) and watch the show.