HBS should be ashamed of this title!

[Bezredahl]

So, I've completed the campaign twice now. Now I'm running it again after modding the Blacknight 6B into a 200 ton Leviathan using the Atlas models, changing the mechdef_blackjack_BJ-1-STARTER.json so that in game ID still matches up to the scripts, but is actually the Leviathon, modding the event_co_exploringRuins so that it has a chance of being an abandoned SLDF outpost with varying amounts of LOSTECH weapons and/or LOSTECH equipment and even the possibility for SLDF mech (including the leviathan.)

I also modded the script so that when we loot the Nautilus base, I get a Leviathan and an Atlas II (AS7-D-HT, which Ialso modded so that starting tonnage is little lower and the speed is a little higher, to emulate a larger engine, ferro-fibrous strucure and armor as much as is possible within the limits of this game. Hard to do, considering they did not implement some of what I consider to be important rules for mech customization.)

also, some of the rare gear in the game never shows up in the stores, like the heat banks and heat exchangers, so I added those to the loot tables when exploring the ruins.

It really irks me that we can mod existing content, to the point that it is entirly different from the original, but we can not actually add content. No new events. I usedthe event editor, the only tool they gave us, to create a new event, but it never fires, because the sytem just ignores it. Even after adding the files to the versionmanifest.csv, the sytem just ignores it.

I was excited to see a new game that was like the old Microsoft published Mech Commander series, but hopefully more in line with the canon rules. Nope. In many ways, this is worse than those old games.

The graphics are better, but that's it. The load times are terrible, mech customization is worse. Even though the mechlab layout is better, the rules for it are worse. If you manage to get more than 14 weapons on a mech, you can only fire them in an alpha strike. the short range weapons automatically fire at any target you attacked, if they are in range, whether you want them to or not. They should be treated just like all the other weapons and not be in their own class of weapons. I'm goingto change that by modding all the chassisdef file to eliminate the support hardpoints and instead beef up the number of energy and/or ballistic hardpoints and mod the weapondef files so that the MGs are ballistic and the small lasers are energy (the way they should be.) And maybe adjust the ranges a little.

Also messing with the heat generation on some of the ballistic weapons to be in line with canon rules. An AC20 should not generate as much heat as a PPC or LRM 20. I'm going to see about getting some the rarer heat management gear to actually appear in the stores and correct some of the rarity ratings for them. I understand why they did some of what they did, but they should have put more effort into trying to get closer to canon rules.

My biggest gripe about the HUD layout is that limit of 14 weapons! If I want to install 8 LRM 5s instead of 2 LRM 20s, I should be able to access them for fire control. And why do the bother to list Melee and DFA in the weapons list. You don't use those attacks like the weapons. You can't just walk up to a target and decide to "fire off a punch or fire off a jump attack. you need to decide if your going to perform a melee attack or a DFA attack when you're moving, not after you have moved. They don't need to be listed. If you can;t jump, then you can't perform a DFA attack. If you're not close enough, then you can't punch or kick the target. That's all easily handled by the option not being there or being there when you move. Wasted HUD space.

Then, without any tools that allow modders to add new content, they have seriously limited this game's life expectancy. For that matter, even if they allowed new content and let the users create the tools, it would be decent. Everything is run with scripts, so you could easily script in new content, except you can't, because the game won't allow new content, only modded existing content.

The campaign is way too short. Only about 7 or 8 missions that are story specific. Everyting in beween is just repetitive grinding for the purpose of getting better mechs and weapons. After the campaign ends, it becomes a pointless grind. Wihout having the ability to add new storied campaigns, side quests, new locations, new maps to go with the new locations or anything else, it all gets very old, very quick.

In addition to all this, the reduced weapon ranges to compensate for small maps. I mean, these maps are tiny. Miniscule even. I don't think they could create larger maps, because the loadin is already so time consuming. to get a proper battletech map loaded in this engine would proabably 10 to 20 minutes. The solution: reduce weapon ranges, keep the maps small, ruin the game and hopethe players don't notice. Take the LRMS for example. The should have a range of 1KM. 1KM is (depending on the map) in range of anythingon the mpa, if you're standing in the center (okay, maybe a slight exaggeration, but very slight.) You can cross a map in a light mech in 4 or 5 turns. That's just wrong! It's no wonder they don't allow us to field 2 lances and support vehicles. There isn't enough room.

On top of all that, anyone familiar with battletech will ahve noticed that ou don't needto put much consideration into ammunition of ammunition based weapons. Unlike true battletech, you just don't use more 1 or 2 tons of AC20 ammo, because they simply can't field enough targets to ever use it. This makes ballistic ans missile weaponsjust as unlimited as energy weapons, which means here is no reason bother with energy weapons if you don't want, becaue you sill never runout of ammo. (for people who use trainers, an unlimited ammo function is pointless. In this setup, it's not even cheating!) Put on an AC20, add 5 rounds of ammo and when you're done with the mission, you will probably still have 2 or 3 rounds left. Which is good, because you'll need that space for heatsinks to managethe heat cost of using it. WTF! HBS broke battletech.

Their first mistake was using the Unity engine. I bet they used it because they don't have the skill necessary to actually use a good game engine, like Unreal. They managed to make it work for Shadowrun. They should have stuck to Shadowrun. I would like to see more of the Shadowrun stuff, not the Boston Lockdown MMO crap, which did to Shadowrun, what this game does to Battletech. But, Unity, with it's poor content handling, resulting in excessive load time for little data and it's substandard graphics capabilities, should never even hae been considered for a game of the caliber of Battletech should have been. instead, we're stuck with this poorly written, poorly implemented hack.

much can be forgiven in the graphics department IF the gameplay is good. With battletech, after the first mission or 2, you're already wishing you hadn't bothered/ But, if you're a Battletech fan like I am (and many others are, too,) you keep playing, hpingthe first few missions are just introductions to the mechanincs of the game and will get better. Then, later, when your most ofthe way through the campaign (which doesn't take long) you realize that this isall you're getting. Now we are all tryingt o mod it up to give ourselves the Battletech experience we crave and expected, but we can't, because again, the developers really screwed the pooch (and us.)

Right now, I'm just killing time, modding what I can, until Vampyr releases. I was really hoping for someting good. This isn't even mediocre. It's amateurish, not well thought out and too limited for the price they charged. As it is, this game shouldn't cost more than $9.99. You can bet your bottom dollar, that you're going to need that dollar, plus a bunch of other dollars, to get any expansion they create, Ifthe game lasts long enough to warrant an expansion. Even the graphics are substandard for today's market. They took what would have a great game in almost any other major developer's hand and turned it into a waste of storage space and money.

I'm betting that the extreme failure to deliver in this game may well spell the end of HBS and deservedly so. The only hope they have now, is to address all of this. Give us our modding tools and the ability to add new content. Increase map sizes, restore weapon ranges and function to canon rules. Restore mech customization to canon rules. Fix the horrendous load times. And basically overhaul the entire game system by starting from scratch abd doing right, all before it is too late. But, I think that is impossible and that it is already too late. After all, you can't change the entire game, including the game engine, with a simple patch or two.

I think we should start a "Go Fund Me" campaign to pay for the HBS tombstone and funeral. The only people who aren't disappointed with this game are those who aren't already familiar with Battletech. Maybe Mechawarrior five will scratch that battletech itch this game couldn't. Such a shame......

[Cutlass Jack]

Originally posted by Bezredahl:

So, I've completed the campaign twice now. Now I'm running it again...

Huh? It sounds to me like they have nothing to be ashamed of if you played it that much.

[Bezredahl]

This post reflects my opinion and feelings about this game. Others may not share it at all, have more to add to it, or not be quite as disappointed as I am. But this is how I feel about it. I am not trying to speak for others unless they agree with my sentiments. I was just hoping for so much more, considering how good all the previous BAttletech based games were and the fact that we are now a decade more advanced in hardware capabilities and software capabilities (not counting Unity.) I fully expected soemthing at least as good as the old Mech Commander games for gameplay but with much improved graphics. Instead, we get this. While the graphics are better than the old Mech Commander games, it isn't that much improved, As for the gameplay, the only improvement is the ability to keep running missions after the campaign ends, but the rest of the gameplay is worse, by far. I have been asking a great many questions to myself, all starting with "Why did they...." or "What were they thinking when they....."

Yes, I am disappointed and frustrated. I should have gotten my money back while I could. Now it's too late.

[Ariko]

Originally posted by Bezredahl:

This post reflects my opinion and feelings about this game. Others may not share it at all, have more to add to it, or not be quite as disappointed as I am. But this is how I feel about it. I am not trying to speak for others unless they agree with my sentiments. I was just hoping for so much more, considering how good all the previous BAttletech based games were and the fact that we are now a decade more advanced in hardware capabilities and software capabilities (not counting Unity.) I fully expected soemthing at least as good as the old Mech Commander games for gameplay but with much improved graphics. Instead, we get this. While the graphics are better than the old Mech Commander games, it isn't that much improved, As for the gameplay, the only improvement is the ability to keep running missions after the campaign ends, but the rest of the gameplay is worse, by far. I have been asking a great many questions to myself, all starting with "Why did they...." or "What were they thinking when they....."

Yes, I am disappointed and frustrated. I should have gotten my money back while I could. Now it's too late.

That would make more sense, except the final paragraph of what was otherwise opinion. You made a blatantly false assertion about everyone else, rather than your feelings.

[RasaNova]

So let me make sure I got this right... You're upset because:
You want more modding tools than they gave for a game where they don't support modding.
You want more than 7 or 8 story missions (your wish is granted, there are over 15)
You want more weapons with better range and larger maps
You want better optimization
You don't like Unity
You think this is the end of HBS.

Hm. Well, I agree with a couple points you made, but to me most of this reads as baseless ranting. I don't mean that as an insult, I get that you are passionate about this and wanted more. But the one thing I don't get is if you hate the game so much why are you wasting time on a 3rd playthrough.

[Bezredahl]

Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:

Originally posted by Bezredahl:

So, I've completed the campaign twice now. Now I'm running it again...

Huh? It sounds to me like they have nothing to be ashamed of if you played it that much.

Each replay was with more and more mods, trying to improve it. The point I was trying to make, is that the campaign is too short and the mod limitations aren't really allowing the game to be improved.

[Evol_Prodigy]

tldr

replying title

nah they're proud and should be

[graystripe]

do you know that no matter how much you mod right now.

when the new version 1.0.5 comes out, all those mods won't work in that new version at all.

you will have to mod everything from scratch every time a new version for this game to come out.

especially since the developers already pointed out that they don't support any mods for this game.

the developers might allow mods to be used in the game permanently in the future, but not now.

[easytarget]

OP,

I definitely didn't bother to read your wall of text rant, all it tells me at once glance is you're off your meds.

[DasaKamov]

Your opinions were well-stated and, although I strongly disagree with them, I respected them...
until these parts:

Originally posted by Bezredahl:

I'm betting that the extreme failure to deliver in this game may well spell the end of HBS and deservedly so.

and

I think we should start a "Go Fund Me" campaign to pay for the HBS tombstone and funeral. The only people who aren't disappointed with this game are those who aren't already familiar with Battletech.

As revealed in a recent developer interview, this game sold extremely well, and both HBS and Paradox were very happy with the fan reception, AND they plan on adding additional expansions in the coming months.

Just because the game doesn't meet YOUR personal, niche expectations is it justifiable to hope that the company goes bankrupt.

Also, you can't back-pedal and say, "Stop arguing with me these are MY opinions" when a few sentences ago you explicitly stated that "I'm the only REAL Battletech fan, and only REAL Battletech fans dislike this game". I've played Table-Top BT since 1991, and I think HBS Battletech is the closest we've gotten to that feeling in a long, LONG time.

[dizzy]

OP, agree with half of what he said.

[Tigerlight]

Read title.
Got as far as the line "I was excited to see a new game that was like the old Microsoft published Mech Commander series, but hopefully more in line with the canon rules. Nope. In many ways, this is worse than those old games."
Stopped reading.

Don't know what "canon" you're basing this off. This is easily the most canon BT title to date, much of it (not all) lifted directly from the TT.
Flawless? Hell, no. Some of the adaptations they've made could have been FAR better implemented, or should not have been implemented at all.
Something to be ashamed of? Absolutely not.

[wesnef]

Well, I basically disagree with just about everything you said. (Disclaimer: I never played MechCommander, so I wasn't expecting MechCommander 2. I was expecting "tabletop BT, on a computer", and I pretty much got that.)

edit: well, I'll agree with Unity being kind of buggy.


Also not sure why you're expecting Creation Kit/GECK Bethesda-level modding from the game. I love those games, and mod them to hell and back, but I rarely expect other game companies to do the same. The fact that this game has so many edittable things in .json files is a heck of a lot more moddability than I was expecting.

Not that I've run into anything I'd want to mod yet.


That said...

On top of all that, anyone familiar with battletech will ahve noticed that ou don't needto put much consideration into ammunition of ammunition based weapons. Unlike true battletech, you just don't use more 1 or 2 tons of AC20 ammo, because they simply can't field enough targets to ever use it. This makes ballistic ans missile weaponsjust as unlimited as energy weapons,

...er. What game are you playing? Because that doesn't sound like the one I am. I've got 2-3 tons of AC/20 ammo for my mechs with one gun, more for the ones with 2. My LRM mechs have 6-8 tons of ammo. Heck, I ran out of MG ammo on my Grasshopper a couple matches, because one ton of MG ammo isn't an entire campaign's worth, like it was in tabletop.


Been playing tabletop BT since 1987, and this is pretty much the game I've been waiting for since I saw the kickstarter a few years ago.

[Bezredahl]

It's not that I'm wasting time on a third play through. It's that I am still trying to improve the game with mods. I keep hoping that I can get it right. but you are partly correct, I should just give it up. The game is crap and no amount of modding can fix the underlying problems. Every mission I have played since about the 5th mission in my first run, has been to test a new mod. And some of the mods require a completely fresh start. That shoud give an idea of just how short the campaign is.

Tutorial (isn't really campaign), I skip it, that first battle on coromodir after the betrayal goes into effect on coronation day and that first mission 3 years later wher you get betrayed. So let's count 'em up. Even though I skip because of the annoying tutorial apsect of it, we'll count coronation day:
1 - Coronation day - I skip it
2 - Axylus, recover the Argo
3 - Weldry
4 - Panzyr
5 - perdition
6 - Smithon
7 - Smithon 2 - destroy newgrange if you can count it as asecond mission, it is still getting help with the decoding.
8 - Artu - nautilu base
9 - Artu 2 - if oyu can count it as a second mission.
10 - smithon again
11 - itrom
12 - panzyr again
13 - tyrlon
14 coromodir
15 cormodir - challenge Again, not really 2 missions, just a continuation
So, even by my way of reckoning, it's 11. So I will concede the point I was wrong with the mission count on this point, but it doesn't change the fact that they are all short missions.

It is still too few and there are all the other shortcomings. Too many to forgive. I have spent far more time trying to fix it, than I have spent playing it. the most frustrating part of it is that with so many of these shortcomings, it's a situation where it's almost there, if only they had put just that little bit extra in it to get it right. Some of it can't be fixed as long it's run on Unity, but the rest.... It's just a lot of little things adding up to major short coming. And the problem is, all those little things had to be done to compensate for the limitations of unity.

I would love to be proven wrong. I really would. If they could increase the map sizes, decrease the load times and get rid of those annoying camera cuts during combat, or at least shorten them to 1 second. I'd prefer, that while I'm firing, the camera stay where I put it only change focus when I'm switching to a different mech and pilot, and when the enemy moves, getthe camera back quicker (much less linger time. Make the enemy units have much less time between one stopping and the next starting. I din't mention that in the original post. I should have. I may edit it in.

I think the main reasons I find this game so disappointing is the shortness of the campaign and I'm purist ehne it comes to battletech. Lrms should have a !KM range, give them a 1K range, Battletech was already balanced. Fudging everything up because Unity can't handle a proper Battletech map, just makes me angry. It ruins the purist aspect of Battletech: with large maps, moving into and through cities for urban warfare. Crossing miles of terrain and using scouts as spotters for the missile spammers and so on. So many of the aspects of battletech that really make it fun and requiring a good strategy are gone.

I guess I was really trying to say that by pointing it all out not quite getting right.

[Frenetic]

ah come on guys, dont be insulting.

its just normal that there are big battle tech fans whose huge expectations werent met with the game. im sure OP isnt the only one. he just slighty overreacting.

@bezredahl, the game and engine isnt perfect and it didnt reach its full potential, but overall its still a decent game. when you say you want a tombstone for it youre going too far. quite alot of people do have quite alot of fun with it.
if it was just half as bad as you say, you would not have invested so much time into it, big battletech fan or not.
why dont you find some likelminded people like you, who make something like a long war mod in xcom for battletech together? me and many other people would love that.
if you want the modding support to improve, you should do that in a sweeter way than with insulting the devs.
i agree this game could use more mod support for adding more custom missions, its really a bit repetitive over time. another half of year of development before release could have been a huge improvement for its overall quality, but im sure this game will still get better over time, with expansions and modders work (in time the modding support will get improved, coz there is huge demand for it. just have a little faith.).. the engine is a bit lackluster (i agree the loading times really suck and its limitations of map size) but its the best that the battle tech universe got right now for a strategy game.
even on smaller maps you can make great missions by adding more reinforcements for example. in the lategame most people just run around in heavy squads anyway so they cant sprint as much. so even in smaller map size, with enough creativity, it should be possible to create a great diversity of custom maps in the future.

[Tigerlight]

Aaaaaaaah,
So your argument is maps aren't big enough, camera is a bit naff, animations are too slow or an interference, and Unity's excessive load times or UI lag are an issue.
The same issues as basically everyone else has.
Check, got it.

Not sure where that's got to do with canon (except in map size) or it being an utter disgrace and the death knell of HBS, but OK.