Buffing the PPC

[jcewazhere]

I'm trying to find my own balance for the weapons and I would like to buff the PPC's accuracy debuff. I think it's the modValue part of
"nature" : "Debuff",
"statisticData" : {
"appliesEachTick" : false,
"effectsPersistAfterDestruction" : false,
"statName" : "AccuracyModifier",
"operation" : "Float_Add",
"modValue" : "1.0",
"modType" : "System.Single",
"additionalRules" : "NotSet",
"targetCollection" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponCategory" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponType" : "NotSet",
"targetAmmoCategory" : "NotSet",
"targetWeaponSubType" : "NotSet"
},

I'm going to try changing that to 5 but if anyone has done this before and can tell me what they found that'd be helpful.

[Ultradad]

Originally posted by avaririot:

Great range , solid stab damage, very good burst danmage to one area, no ammo,. Of course it runs hot and it's
a tad heavy, it's fine as it is.

No it's actually arguably the worst weapon in the game. Just look at the math:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1czVp890OHFcFQJclxe6G3Esvo6qJnshfI8RHyD1a_R4/edit?usp=sharing

[Rob'sEvilTwin]

Originally posted by Pedro:

Fixing the PPC is easy: +5 damage, -10 heat and it's right where it needs to be

Already did that weeks ago :P I am interested in finding the Accuracy debuff values that the OP mentioned as well.

[Ultradad]

Originally posted by Rob'sEvilTwin:

Originally posted by Pedro:

Fixing the PPC is easy: +5 damage, -10 heat and it's right where it needs to be

Already did that weeks ago :P I am interested in finding the Accuracy debuff values that the OP mentioned as well.

I'd argue the PPC doesn't need anymore tweaking... what needs to be adjusted is accuracy in general... it's just too high

[jcewazhere]

@Rob

Originally posted by Rob'sEvilTwin:

Which file are those PPC values in? Was looking at this myself, could not find the relevant .JSON.

G:\Steam\SteamApps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\weapon the Weapon_PPC_PPC_0-STOCK.json through Weapon_PPC_PPC_2-Tiegart.json
For some reason the ERPPC doesn't seem to have this debuff, or I'm super blind.

A good mod for modifying the weapons easily: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/123 it doesn't do everything, for example the PPC debuff isn't shown, but if you want to bulk edit weapons it works well.

[avaririot]

Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by avaririot:

Great range , solid stab damage, very good burst danmage to one area, no ammo,. Of course it runs hot and it's
a tad heavy, it's fine as it is.

No it's actually arguably the worst weapon in the game. Just look at the math:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1czVp890OHFcFQJclxe6G3Esvo6qJnshfI8RHyD1a_R4/edit?usp=sharing

Comparable to the AC/5 which nobody has a problem with. Both have same range. Ac/5 a little better dmga by weight/heat, PPC slightly better stab. PPC has a debuff on target while ac/5 has debuff on attacker (recoil). PPC needs to cool off every now and then, AC/5 has ammo that blows up and again, that recoil.

Both are excellent all around weapons for single area damage, but the PPC can go on anything while cannon slots aren't as common.

[wesnef]

Originally posted by avaririot:

Comparable to the AC/5 which nobody has a problem with. Both have same range. Ac/5 a little better dmga by weight/heat, PPC slightly better stab. PPC has a debuff on target while ac/5 has debuff on attacker (recoil). PPC needs to cool off every now and then, AC/5 has ammo that blows up and again, that recoil.

And maybe it's just my luck, but nice +PPCs seem easier to find than nice +AC/5's. (not that I'm using the PPCs at the moment. But I'm saving a few good ++/+++ ones for when I find another heat exchanger or two.)

[Ultradad]

Originally posted by avaririot:

Originally posted by Pedro:

No it's actually arguably the worst weapon in the game. Just look at the math:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1czVp890OHFcFQJclxe6G3Esvo6qJnshfI8RHyD1a_R4/edit?usp=sharing

Comparable to the AC/5 which nobody has a problem with. Both have same range. Ac/5 a little better dmga by weight/heat, PPC slightly better stab. PPC has a debuff on target while ac/5 has debuff on attacker (recoil). PPC needs to cool off every now and then, AC/5 has ammo that blows up and again, that recoil.

Both are excellent all around weapons for single area damage, but the PPC can go on anything while cannon slots aren't as common.

No it's not a little better... It's A LOT better. 2.46 damage per heat/ton/ammo is WAY worse than 3.65 damage per heat/ton/ammo.

If you are using PPCs instead of AC/5s you are almost always making the wrong choice (except on small mechs where the PPC is close to the only weapon carried and you aren't sharing the engine heat sinks with anything else).

Look at the Catapult K2.... it's vastly better with AC/5s instead of PPCs.


I'm sorry, but if you think the PPC is "excellent" in this game you are bad at math. It's the least efficient weapon you can mount.

[avaririot]

Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by avaririot:

Comparable to the AC/5 which nobody has a problem with. Both have same range. Ac/5 a little better dmga by weight/heat, PPC slightly better stab. PPC has a debuff on target while ac/5 has debuff on attacker (recoil). PPC needs to cool off every now and then, AC/5 has ammo that blows up and again, that recoil.

Both are excellent all around weapons for single area damage, but the PPC can go on anything while cannon slots aren't as common.

No it's not a little better... It's A LOT better. 2.46 damage per heat/ton/ammo is WAY worse than 3.65 damage per heat/ton/ammo.

If you are using PPCs instead of AC/5s you are almost always making the wrong choice (except on small mechs where the PPC is close to the only weapon carried and you aren't sharing the engine heat sinks with anything else).

Look at the Catapult K2.... it's vastly better with AC/5s instead of PPCs.


I'm sorry, but if you think the PPC is "excellent" in this game you are bad at math. It's the least efficient weapon you can mount.

Half the mechs in the game don't even have ballistic hardpoints. So if your looking for knockout punch weapon on your laser boat, like say, the Black Knight, the PPC is where you go. It's comparable to the AC/5 with a couple tons leftover for extra sinks/armor whatever.

I never said PPC is a great weapon, I said it's fine, because it has its place. If you don;t have better hardpoints and can afford the heat, it can be a very useful weapon, especially the ++ versions.

[Ultradad]

Originally posted by avaririot:

Originally posted by Pedro:

No it's not a little better... It's A LOT better. 2.46 damage per heat/ton/ammo is WAY worse than 3.65 damage per heat/ton/ammo.

If you are using PPCs instead of AC/5s you are almost always making the wrong choice (except on small mechs where the PPC is close to the only weapon carried and you aren't sharing the engine heat sinks with anything else).

Look at the Catapult K2.... it's vastly better with AC/5s instead of PPCs.


I'm sorry, but if you think the PPC is "excellent" in this game you are bad at math. It's the least efficient weapon you can mount.

Half the mechs in the game don't even have ballistic hardpoints. So if your looking for knockout punch weapon on your laser boat, like say, the Black Knight, the PPC is where you go. It's comparable to the AC/5 with a couple tons leftover for extra sinks/armor whatever.

I never said PPC is a great weapon, I said it's fine, because it has its place. If you don;t have better hardpoints and can afford the heat, it can be a very useful weapon, especially the ++ versions.

Just because it works against the stupid AI doesn't make it ok to have horribly underpowered weapons in the game. It limits smart players in their options and makes the game less fun.

Granted, I don't care that much as I've already fixed all the silly weapon stats the devs were off on (although I have to say they did a pretty good job overall). Having everything in the JSONs is awesome

[Rob'sEvilTwin]

Originally posted by jcewazhere:

@Rob

Originally posted by Rob'sEvilTwin:

Which file are those PPC values in? Was looking at this myself, could not find the relevant .JSON.

G:\Steam\SteamApps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\weapon the Weapon_PPC_PPC_0-STOCK.json through Weapon_PPC_PPC_2-Tiegart.json
For some reason the ERPPC doesn't seem to have this debuff, or I'm super blind.

A good mod for modifying the weapons easily: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/123 it doesn't do everything, for example the PPC debuff isn't shown, but if you want to bulk edit weapons it works well.

How odd, the ER does seem to be the only model without the debuff. Easy fixed with a quick edit.

Would you buff it by:

1> Removing the stack limit (so the debuff can be applied multiple times) - "stackLimit" : 1,
2> Increasing the duration - "duration" : 1,
3> Increasing the value of the debuff - "modValue" : "1.0",
4> Some combination of the above?

[Ultradad]

Originally posted by Rob'sEvilTwin:

Originally posted by jcewazhere:

@Rob


G:\Steam\SteamApps\common\BATTLETECH\BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\data\weapon the Weapon_PPC_PPC_0-STOCK.json through Weapon_PPC_PPC_2-Tiegart.json
For some reason the ERPPC doesn't seem to have this debuff, or I'm super blind.

A good mod for modifying the weapons easily: https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/123 it doesn't do everything, for example the PPC debuff isn't shown, but if you want to bulk edit weapons it works well.

How odd, the ER does seem to be the only model without the debuff. Easy fixed with a quick edit.

Would you buff it by:

1> Removing the stack limit (so the debuff can be applied multiple times) - "stackLimit" : 1,
2> Increasing the duration - "duration" : 1,
3> Increasing the value of the debuff - "modValue" : "1.0",
4> Some combination of the above?

I know this mod includes the fix

https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/149

[Fendelphi]

Changing the Mod value to 2 or 3 should make it quite effective. It would make the weapon excellent with run and gun mechs, as they already have high evasion and the increased accuracy debuff would make those harder to hit.
It would also make it a pretty solid fire support weapon, as it assist all your mechs, not just the one firing.

Just remember that the enemy will get the same benefit when firing the weapon.


Another debuff you could add(in which case the accuracy debuff should only be increased to 2), is heat generated on the target.
This is, after all, a massive amount of energy being forced upon the enemy mech.
A stacking 5 heat per PPC hit could be interesting to try out.

It would be hard to immediately shut an enemy mech down due to overheating(as you pay 40 heat to apply 5 heat), but 2-3 shots would mean that it might have to turn off 1 Mlaser if it wants to avoid internal damage.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by jcewazhere:

My question <--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Thread content

lol thanks for the replies anyway.

Look we're sorry you're a "Deep Periphery" mechwarrior who can't get by without heat neutral boats like you build back home.

(Man. If HBS ever get to those guys, the fact DHS no longer apply to in engine sinks is going to make a lot of nerds set in their ways piiiiiiiiised)

[jcewazhere]

ImHelping is your name supposed to be ironic? Great job if that's what you are aiming for. Most of the other replies on this thread have at least attempted to contribute rather than being so narcissistic that all they can do is spread vitriol.

I settled on a 3 for that debuff value, +15% to miss feels better to me than just 5. I lowered the weight one ton and the heat by 10 as suggested. It's still not as OP as medium lasers but at least it feels usable to me. Remember two things: that the AI gets these buffs too, and these changes are to my single player campaign. If you don't like it go change it your own way, or stick your head in a bucket.

[Revener]

Originally posted by Pedro:

Originally posted by Rob'sEvilTwin:

Already did that weeks ago :P I am interested in finding the Accuracy debuff values that the OP mentioned as well.

I'd argue the PPC doesn't need anymore tweaking... what needs to be adjusted is accuracy in general... it's just too high

Yeah it is way to easy to hit here compared to TT where 50% or worse hit ratio is quite common.