HBK-4P : Usefull?

[Takk806]

Hi!
Just salvaged a full Hunchback 4P (The laser one).
Even tho I really happy about a new mech and all, I'm a bit disapointed it wasn't the missile one or even a ballistic one I could put a bigass AC 20 on it and just oneshot anything (still early in game btw so...yeah oneshot).

Any advice about this one? Should I just stash it and use it for a really rainy day or am I missing this huge opportunity that the rng gods gave me today?

Thanks!

[Sentient_Toaster]

Partyback. ( https://youtu.be/CeDIm5Qpmx4 )

A Partyback with a bunch of MLs and a pilot with high Tactics (specifically, Tactics 9) can do precision strikes to land all those lasers on one area and sever a leg pretty readily. Or, a pilot in one of these with multitargeting can give light mech rushes a hard time -- target three mechs at once, and their armor is light enough that even MLs have a decent chance of causing breaches.

[s†. Chris†opher]

I kitted out my 4P with 8 Mlasers, 3 Slasers and the Double sinks you get from the story Highlander mech. and i'm basically owning heavies and assualts like this.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkbB-X9654s

[kasimmorathi]

Actually, you'll find mass medium lasers more effective in general than your AC/20. They're not as glamorous but there are a few reasons.

First, your AC/20 is going to have extremely limited ammunition. You won't be able to carry much of it. I think you end up with five shots per bin of ammo. This means any prolonged engagement (which many are) is going to possibly going to leave you with a mech that is dead weight. Since you can only carry four units and you're almost universally outnumbered, having one unit out of action is a serious loss. You'll feel every missed shot far more acutely.

Yes, the AC/20 does a lot of damage but also consider that four medium lasers do the exact same amount of damage - but using far less weight. Also, if you miss one shot you're sitll doing 75 points instead of 0 points. AC/20's are great weapons for larger mechs that can afford the weight and are pairing it up with a broader set of weapons (e.g., Atlas).

Mass medium laser alpha strikes aren't sexy, but they are devastating.

[Magni]

Disco Hunchie is probably not as great as Boomstick Hunchie, but still not something you want to run into at short range.

['Strict]

I used to run with one of these before I found some heavies. The downsides to the Hunchback is range/movement as in, it's so slow and has short range so the other mechs might enter combat 2 rounds before he even gets close.

Armour is pretty low on them if you use all M-Laser slots.
Lasers will hit random parts of the body, AC's will hit concentrated damage so if you're trying to get salvage/are using Called Shots a lot the Lasers aren't great.

And last, it will most likely take the spot of your LRM-boat. =p

Try getting the Medium that can carry the LRM20 and 2 LRM10's instead. (Centurion? I can't remember the name right now but I know it reminds me of a Roman soldier (or is the name of it) so it might be that =)

Once I switched to that one I started rolling through the missions with a maximum of one "limb" lost per mission.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by kasimmorathi:

Actually, you'll find mass medium lasers more effective in general than your AC/20. They're not as glamorous but there are a few reasons.

First, your AC/20 is going to have extremely limited ammunition. You won't be able to carry much of it. I think you end up with five shots per bin of ammo. This means any prolonged engagement (which many are) is going to possibly going to leave you with a mech that is dead weight. Since you can only carry four units and you're almost universally outnumbered, having one unit out of action is a serious loss. You'll feel every missed shot far more acutely.

Yes, the AC/20 does a lot of damage but also consider that four medium lasers do the exact same amount of damage - but using far less weight. Also, if you miss one shot you're sitll doing 75 points instead of 0 points. AC/20's are great weapons for larger mechs that can afford the weight and are pairing it up with a broader set of weapons (e.g., Atlas).

Mass medium laser alpha strikes aren't sexy, but they are devastating.

While this is true, remember that heat is much harder to manage when firing 4+ MLasers, than a single AC20.

Also, unless it is a Called Shot, the 4+ MLasers are likely to strike different locations, while the AC20 applies all damage on a single point. And the AC20 has stab damage.

I prefer the MLasers myself(great all-round weapon, as it should be), but the AC20 should not be completely dismissed as an option.

HOWEVER, I prefer 2 AC5s and 2MLasers on my Hunchback. 2x45 damage(high damage per location, compared to MLaser) and stability damage, and very heat efficient with good range. The AC20 is just too low range for the Hunchback to use effectively. The double AC5s let me provide fire support from a safe location, taking Called shots as they appear, or assist in knocking down targets(especially if you can get AC5s with +15 stab damage).

Would love to get a 4J or 4SP variant though.

[Takoita]

I found this model to be a mite underarmored for its speed, but putting in someone with a high piloting skill can reduce that issue. Otherwise, while the heat needs to be watched as on all energy heavy builds, having it spread out over so many hardpoints is helpful; you can toggle off as much individual medium lasers as you need without losing half or all of your punch like you would with something like a PPC.

[s†. Chris†opher]

My only problem with the 4P is its ridiculously flimsy arms(low armor) so you can't safetly put ++Mlasers on them. But aside from that, with MAX jumpjets and MAX EC from piloting, It hardly gets hit.

[damian2472005]

i can recomend the hunchbacks alot in that game part they bear lots of firepower and the armor is good.its same with the jaegermech they got beefed up armor as it seems in compare to tabletop.

[Invasion_Dec]

Just take off its support weapons and give it jumpjets to help with its poor mobility. Max out its weapon slots with just Medium Lasers. Get at least 50% heat efficiency with heatsinks and pump the rest into armor. Its a close range monster of a medium that can dish out total damage on par with heavy mechs. Compare it with a Vindicator and you will see it is a huge upgrade.

Likewise the 4G variant is a slower but better Shadowhawk.

['Strict]

Originally posted by Invasion:

Just take off its support weapons and give it jumpjets to help with its poor mobility. Max out its weapon slots with just Medium Lasers. Get at least 50% heat efficiency with heatsinks and pump the rest into armor. Its a close range monster of a medium that can dish out total damage on par with heavy mechs. Compare it with a Vindicator and you will see it is a huge upgrade.

Likewise the 4G variant is a slower but better Shadowhawk.

When I removed the Hunchback I still had my Vindicator who in my eyes are a better Mech, that might just be my playstyle though cause I love having a mech that can always just use the Called shots for a "guaranteed" kill or to remove a leg. The HBK is just too random, sure it will do 200 damage per Alpha-Strike but you never know where it will end up, the Alpha-Strike with a PPC and LRM15 you know will pretty much hit the same spot and remove a limb if needed =)

[s†. Chris†opher]

Originally posted by Invasion:

Just take off its support weapons and give it jumpjets to help with its poor mobility. Max out its weapon slots with just Medium Lasers. Get at least 50% heat efficiency with heatsinks and pump the rest into armor. Its a close range monster of a medium that can dish out total damage on par with heavy mechs. Compare it with a Vindicator and you will see it is a huge upgrade.

Likewise the 4G variant is a slower but better Shadowhawk.

Your build is pretty spot on but 60 damage for 1.5 tonnes at lower heat seems like too much to lose. Considering you are jumping in close range with max EC range becomes a non-issue.

While at first glance, support weapons look like the obvious choice to ditch, they are partly the reason why the firestarter > 4P > grasshopper are performing better than most of their counterparts in regards to damage.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Invasion:

Just take off its support weapons and give it jumpjets to help with its poor mobility. Max out its weapon slots with just Medium Lasers. Get at least 50% heat efficiency with heatsinks and pump the rest into armor. Its a close range monster of a medium that can dish out total damage on par with heavy mechs. Compare it with a Vindicator and you will see it is a huge upgrade.

Likewise the 4G variant is a slower but better Shadowhawk.

I wouldnt say 4G is a better Shadow Hawk, since you use them quite differently. And a 4G with max JJs has very little armor.

Also a max MLaser 4P with JJs are insanely hot(jumping at full range builds a lot of heat). Strong, but only really efficient it cold areas where the heatsinks can keep up. I agree that it is better than the Vindicator.

[Carog the Fat]

This mech is really effective while you are fighting weak mech with low armour a 25 damage will wreck a location later on 25 damage to 8 locaions isnt so useful as 100 damge ot one location

[Invasion_Dec]

Called shot/Precision strike with 7 medium lasers and see what happens