I want to fire the payroll department

[Nine-ball]

Has anyone else noticed that our mechwarriors are paid obscene amounts of money? Consider a rookie pilot earning, say, 30,000 C-Bills month. Over a year, they make 360,000 C-Bills.

To put that in context, the price of an LCT-1V Locust is about 1,700,000 C-Bills, presumably with manufacturer and retailer markup. This in turn means that it would take 4 years, eight and a half months for our employees to buy a Locust.

Battlemechs are supposed to be hideously expensive due to rarity, but for comparison's sake we'll use the modern and relatively cheap Commando Stingray light tank, one of the cheapest modern tanks you can buy, which retails at around 5 million dollars.

All factored up, we're paying our mechwarriors just a little under 1.25 million dollars per year. That's outrageous. Yeah, they're risking their lives and are supposedly elite specialists, even as noobs, but what soldier, mercenary, pilot, or even astronaut do you know that gets paid over a million dollars per year? Again, for comparison, the most elite astronauts get paid about $145,000 per annum.

Thus, I would like to fire the payroll department, which in truth is only Darius. Granted, he apparently works for free, as does everyone else (unless they're Yang or paid out of travel costs) but I'd be willing to shell out a few hundred C-bills per week to get a better finance specialist. No wonder our loan payments got all ****ed up.

[Nine-ball]

Originally posted by Napalm1473:

I know your OP was more in jest than anything else, I'm just schooling the people who whinge over lore inaccuracy or perfect balancing. Its a game, shut up and enjoy it and take the last coffee for yourself, you damn well earned it!

Nah, I split the coffee. Never touch the stuff, myself.

Since we're talking about the crew anyway, has anyone gotten the feeling that Yang is the Doctor Shen of this game? Darius is Central Officer Bradford, and Farad is Dr. Vahlen.

[veryinky]

Side note, a CBill is worth $5 in 1985 US dollars, or $10 in 2008 dollars.

Then there's the "Life is cheap, mechs are expensive." Battletech motto, which comes from the fact that there are out of work 10-20 mechwarriors to every mech.

I'd argue the pay is completely out of whack, but in turn the mission rewards are too. Supposed to be arguing for a percentage of salvage, not X number of pieces (so the mercenary has a reason to not simply core or slag everything) Also, batltes in battletech are rarely fought to the death like they are in the HBS game, enemies retreat, negotiate surrender, pay bounties. Since again, Life is cheap, mechs are expensive. Coring hundreds of nearly irriplaceable mechs like the player does while fighting wave after wave of suicidal fanatics is very much against the spirit of battletech.

[Nine-ball]

So true, inky.

[ReignEdaze]

Originally posted by Nine-ball:

Originally posted by Napalm1473:

shut up and enjoy it and take the last coffee for yourself, you damn well earned it!

Nah, I split the coffee. Never touch the stuff, myself.

Since we're talking about the crew anyway, has anyone gotten the feeling that Yang is the Doctor Shen of this game? Darius is Central Officer Bradford, and Farad is Dr. Vahlen.

I did in game too haha, but IRL i am a coffee fiend, i dont drink, gamble or do the drugs (yeh i know caffeine is technically a drug) but you have to have something in your life to enjoy each morning, and the mrs just dont cut it anymore hahahaha. which of course turned out to be the 'best' option for the game.

Well i mean its kind of easy to make that conenction in terms of games need X character to do X etc, but yeh, personality wise, quite similar to the xcom crew thats for sure.

Originally posted by veryinky:

Also, batltes in battletech are rarely fought to the death like they are in the HBS game, enemies retreat, negotiate surrender, pay bounties.

Mhm, if i was playing IRL tabletop and my opponent wouldn't accept a surrender, cored my last mech instead of capturing it and keeping it or ransoming it then that guy would probably get on me and my friends black list for sure. Especially if it was a campaign battle similar to a character in a d&d campaign. But they can execute the pilot for all i care, ive got 100 more who would fight to the death for a spot in a mech. They dont grow in test tubes like people do...

[Vosh Sahaal]

Originally posted by Napalm1473:

Originally posted by Grimsby:

Yea as a private contractor your on about £60,000-£150,000 per year.
As a reg in the army between 25,000-35,000.

So yea.

That said I dunno anybody on 150K+ a year.

I'm ex Australian Navy and I was on over 100k AUD in my 2nd year, nearly 200k when i left as a "Leading Seaman" after 6 years (4 of which i spent at sea) -including seagoing and combat allowances. Each job is different of course, i was intelligence and communications, a gun bunny/boatsawin dont have the same base salary as me, but they get all the same bonus allowances which is wher eyou get the meat of your pay anyway. 0-3 years time at sea 10k/year bonus, 4-6, 19k, 7+ 35k, see where I'm going here? Thats ONE of about 3-4 allowances you get ON TOP of your base salary.
When I was on tour and doing boarding parties I was earning an additional 350 AUD a DAY for combat pay and doing boardings.

Now, that all sounds good though right? But what if i was working for a private CPP (close personnel protection) company that transporting people or supplies in dangerous areas, well. Pretty sure base salary would be around my entire years pay with full allowances.
Let alone all the bonuses those guys get. I know a few of them, they put their lives on the line, and they get rewarded heavily for it.

You were paid better than a contractor, even after exchange rate.

Also mitigating their pay would be mass. You are moving them in, that means more mass with food and water. More mass means more fuel. And more heat to deal with in space and how much is a Hollywood shower in space.

[ReignEdaze]

Originally posted by Vosh Sahaal:

You were paid better than a contractor, even after exchange rate.

Also mitigating their pay would be mass. You are moving them in, that means more mass with food and water. More mass means more fuel. And more heat to deal with in space and how much is a Hollywood shower in space.

Paid better than YOUR contractors, paid less than OUR contractors.
its not just about how much you get paid and adjsuting for exchange rates though, its relative to cost of living. Australia is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live because we have such good everything. You cant buy a house for under 300k in australia, highrise apartement? yeh, start 750k minimum for lower floors. 4-5 bedroom familyhouse in a standard neighbourhood? 800-1mil starting price.
We, like most of the top 1st world coutnries are like not certain other countries feeding you 50kg of 90% processed chemical injected meat fat for $5 at your local fast food place.
I mean the biggest bag of chips you can buy here is like 300g, i bought a 2kg bag of dotiris when i was in america.... The government wants you to have diabetes so they can charge you to stay alive! Not here....


I'd hate to think of how much a 1st class spaceflight would cost in 1000 years time...

[Nine-ball]

Keep it civil, Napalm. I know you're joking around, but some people take nationalism very seriously, and I'd rather not have my thread locked on account of it.

[Senkoau]

Sadly while Australia's housing has skyrocketed in price wages haven't its going to take decades for me to pay off my morgage.

Originally posted by Nine-ball:

Originally posted by Senkoau:

Ok I went and calculated out all the wages I'd expect to be paying in the RPG. To avoid wall of text I'm not posting it all here but I'll PM if someone wants the full details.

As a result of it though I have worked out that in the RPG I would expect to be paying for the company + support staff per month a total of 324,339.25 Cbills. That's for the people not the Argo maintenance costs/mech costs etc.

Now on the other other hand we are paying 53,000 for an elite pilot or 583,000 for all 11. The med bay upgrade includes costs for the doctors. However we aren't considering wages for the rest of the senior staff or any other crew so even if we do assume there are hidden costs there to pay for them we're still paying nearly twice as much in staffing costs as we should be.

I wonder how you'd work out dropship maintenance though be interesting to see how the Argo comes out vs the costs we pay.

For one lance? Aboard a Leopard? 324,339 C-bills? No, you're way, way off. It only costs 6,000 C-Bills per month to maintain a BattleMaster, according to the Mercenaries Handbook, and 3350 to pay the Leopard crew.

Your figures are more in line with the game, minus the interest payments, ofc.

I don't have the merceneraries handbook I was going off the salary tables and expense tables in a time of war to work out individual salary totals + food expenses. These are also for a theoretical company + support on the Argo if you were only supporting a lance on the Leopard the monthly costs would come way, way down as you said.
For example mine include paying wages for 60 crew (most drop ships have this so it seemed a good number to go with), 18 support staff (Sarna say's 4-6 per lance, 12-18 for a company), higher wages for the officer in charge of the 2nd/3rd lance compared to most mech pilots due to higher rank, actaully having a company of mechwarriors, officer wages for the senior staff, the medical staff, etc, etc. I didn't even touch the actual ship maintenance costs just crew.

Even there I erred on the side of generosity more than not e.g. your character gets company commander officer wages per the RPG because that's what they are technically but I put all the senior staff (darius, yang, farah, sumire) at just below them in rank for calculating wages. Same with utilities I increased costs by 20% across the board (as per the table which say's basic utilities is +10% and luxury is 20) because an upgraded Argo would be a luxurious place to live. Which doesn't even address the fact I've calculated drop ship crew costs rather than having that lumped into ship expenses. In fact drop ship crew is one of the big expenses as there's so many of them (I'm assuming 60 for a ship the Argo's size) as by themselves they account for a big chunk of the cost. I also am paying EVERYONE even the technician 3rd class who restocks the vending machines the 2x multiplier for elite skills in his field.

The Leopard on the other hand only has 9 crew so you'd be dropping the costs I gave by somewhere over 150,000 just from that alone then you remove all the doctor salaries, two lances of mechwarriors worth of salaries, Farha's pay. No if I were just doing 1 lance on the Leopard monthly pay would probably not crack 50k which I'm paying for a single pilot in the game.

If you want I'll PM you my calculations so you can take a look but basically like I said I worked out the entire costs for the entire company not just the mechwarriors after you have the Argo fully upgraded. Which is why it comes out so high. I wanted to err on the side of overcompensation rather than under.

[Paragon]

The Wiki (sarna.net) has the following; "Many commands pay their mercenaries on a monthly salary basis, with the risk that repeated failure to pay can cause some to quit or change sides.[28] These salaries are also kept as low as possible in order to keep costs down: one of the highest paid soldiers in a mercenary command, a MechWarrior, in the 31st century could expect a base average salary of just 18,000-19,000 C-bills a year (though veterans and officers could expect several times that amount)"

Yet we pay our fresh recuits more than that every month. IMO its poorly balanced and ill fitting into the lore, but thankfully you can mod it away and hire more mechwarriors because head hits are all too common and damnit I need them comms systems.

Hell, a recuit mechwarrior costs more to maintain per month than a 100 ton lostech assualt mech, though to be fair THAT costs as much to maintain as a fully stripped Locust.

Think of it this way: You're paying for the OP as hell Precision shot and Vigilance abilities.

[Senkoau]

Like I said going off the RPG your personal pay (not counting bonuses you might give yourself) as the commander of the company and a mech pilot would be only 6,000 a month with everyone else presumably less than that. 18k a year is roughly what you'd pay someone who was technically a raw recruit or a house soldier (pay in the RPG is based on a mix of rank/skills with house troops not having the skills modifier).

I'm kind of torn on my calculations if you assume the pilot wages are meant to represent all the staffing costs it comes out as roughly twice as much rather than 10 times as much. In which case I can kind of see that as a game abstraction of hidden costs and things being more expensive on the periphery. If you look at it on a pilot only basis though its horribly overpriced.

[ReignEdaze]

Originally posted by Nine-ball:

Keep it civil, Napalm. I know you're joking around, but some people take nationalism very seriously, and I'd rather not have my thread locked on account of it.

It is civil, not a joke, and factual. No one needs a 1.5L of coke with their 4 burgers, let alone 4 burgers, but yeh i know how some people can get with their patriotism and all that junk and to them i say take a look at yourself and your country, are you really in a position to judge others?
I'll edit out the country name for you.

Originally posted by Senkoau:

Sadly while Australia's housing has skyrocketed in price wages haven't its going to take decades for me to pay off my morgage.

Mhm, its getting to be an issue with all these chinese investors buying up entire developments and jsut putting whatever price they want on it. Some say the Government treally needs to take a bettter stance on what is a fair price and what is not but then we verge on breaching our civil liberties of free trade. No ones forcing mortgages down peoples throats, but we do have to live somewhere. Its bad and getting worse, but what can we do about?

I was looking over the merc HB and youre not far off with the numbers you had anyway.

Originally posted by Paragon:

in the 31st century could expect a base average salary of just 18,000-19,000 C-bills a year (though veterans and officers could expect several times that amount)"

Yet we pay our fresh recuits more than that every month. IMO its poorly balanced and ill fitting into the lore, but thankfully you can mod it away and hire more mechwarriors because head hits are all too common and damnit I need them comms systems.

Its certainly not an ideal figure thats for sure, but these not 'recuits' in terms of no skill. They are still good pilots, they are just recruits in our division.

Like a junior CPP member is still a juniour in that division, but they get way more pay than a junior army grunt.

Theyre more skilled than the army grunts though as a base, though they hold the same "rank" in their respective outfits. I think the in game prices are a bit high as far as lore goes, but so are our contract payments. I don't go around getting 2.5mil payouts for a simple escort mission in tabletop like i do in battletech.

[mdcpaladin]

Originally posted by Elk Cloner:

What about the ridiculously paid soccer/football players?

start by shooting those overpaid ♥♥♥♥♥. nothing of value would be lost

[Nine-ball]

Originally posted by Napalm:

It is civil, not a joke, and factual. No one needs a 1.5L of coke with their 4 burgers, let alone 4 burgers, but yeh i know how some people can get with their patriotism and all that junk and to them i say take a look at yourself and your country, are you really in a position to judge others?
I'll edit out the country name for you.

No, I'd much rather you stop trying to be inflammatory. You're using outrageous hyperbole and you know it. With all respect to your name, the last thing this thread needs is a flame war. Do NOT get my thread locked. Please.

Edit-

Originally posted by Wyatt Mann:

start by shooting those overpaid ♥♥♥♥♥. nothing of value would be lost

Same goes for you.

[mdcpaladin]

Originally posted by Nine-ball:

Originally posted by Napalm:

It is civil, not a joke, and factual. No one needs a 1.5L of coke with their 4 burgers, let alone 4 burgers, but yeh i know how some people can get with their patriotism and all that junk and to them i say take a look at yourself and your country, are you really in a position to judge others?
I'll edit out the country name for you.

No, I'd much rather you stop trying to be inflammatory. You're using outrageous hyperbole and you know it. With all respect to your name, the last thing this thread needs is a flame war. Do NOT get my thread locked. Please.

Edit-

Originally posted by Wyatt Mann:

start by shooting those overpaid ♥♥♥♥♥. nothing of value would be lost

Same goes for you.

lol madboi arent ya? another lvl 0 private scrubb
prolly a little commie college dipstick to. have fun milenialsoybot

[Nine-ball]

Originally posted by Wyatt Mann:

lol madboi arent ya? another lvl 0 private scrubb

Hardly. I'm merely abiding by Steam rules. Keep that stuff out of this thread.