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BATTLETECH > Discussões gerais > Detalhes do tópico
ZyF 2/nov./2019 às 8:04
How is melee a thing?
When's the last time you saw a battering ram on a tank?
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Escrito originalmente por Jebe457:
@ZyF
Battletech started out as a grid based wargame that tends more towards the XCOM recruit accuracy side of things and appeals to concepts Guderian outlined in his review of the WW1 Tank data that led him to suggest parking tanks before firing. Hence any movement by the shooter has significant impairments to accuracy, which in turn implies weapon stabilization technology simply doesn't exist.

HBS Battletech is better in this regard, which makes things more purposeful but also significant reduces Time to Death in the process. They also fixed Autocannon balance and brought them to where the weight of ammo parallels well with the obvious inspiration, hence the AC/2 parallels well with ARES 75mm triple shot autocannon, the AC/5 with the prototype ARES 90mm triple shot autocannon, the AC/10 with the proposed ARES 105mm triple shot autocannon, and the AC/20 could alternately be interpreted as a 180mm single shot gun per the Clan Invasion Era Report tome or an ARES 120mm triple shot autocannon if we follow the trend based on weight of ammo.

When the Clans were originally introduced there clearly was an intent on the importance of having extra range in combat, and trying to discourage the melee hence the Clans couldn't melee. The TT simulation tending to involve small 16x17 hex maps while usually allowing 6 to 8 hex run movement while firing however makes bumrushing a bit more viable than it really should be in TT as Mechs can often close before being able to do significant damage, and trying to maintain range is more complicated than it should be.

Pretty much every other simulation has avoided this problem, and not included melee as an option. HBS has tweaked things so you're generally incentivized to not go in for melee, and generally it only makes sense for finishing off a hard to hit light when you've otherwise structured things so doing so won't be punished.

The truly controversial thing about it in HBS Battletech is that it's effectively a system to ensure that nearly dead Mechs continue to be serious threats until they're truly down. Normally when a Mech would be in such a situation it would either need to retreat or do nothing for a round to cool down, but here they continue to be threats thus escalating the pressure on the player. In turn this particular implementation is more about videogame difficulty management and player options.
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Exibindo comentários 1–15 de 23
pmcollectorboy 2/nov./2019 às 8:13 
Stomping on a ground vehicle is an instant kill. Melee is sometimes just enough to destroy a crippled mech. Melee uses no heat and no ammo(except flamers and machine guns).
#1
jmsand1 2/nov./2019 às 8:15 
Giant Mecha's slugging it out have been a thing for over 100 years in literature. How could they release a game without that feature?
#2
SlickStargazer 2/nov./2019 às 8:25 
it's in the table top game, im happy to finally see it in a video game.
#3
Gralzeim 2/nov./2019 às 8:39 
Escrito originalmente por ZyF:
When's the last time you saw a battering ram on a tank?

When was the last time you saw a tank with arms and legs?
#4
DiceWrangler 2/nov./2019 às 9:03 
I like the idea of giant mechs fighting each other in hand-to-hand combat but will we ever see melee weapons like giant axes, swords or shields? The Black Knight seems like it should be an awesome melee opponent. "None shall pass!"
#5
The Spirit of Jazz 2/nov./2019 às 9:15 
Go and watch Pacific Rim.
#6
wesnef 2/nov./2019 às 9:24 
The tanks don't melee, the mechs do.

(And melee attacks have been in mech shows/movies/books/anime pretty much forever. Even in ones where the tech level hasn't broken down to the point that weapons aren't really long range.)

edit: and when's the last time I saw a battering ram on a tank? How about most cop cars / SUVs / APCs / etc, used in Urban areas where they might need to punch through a barricade/roadblock/house.
Última edição por wesnef; 2/nov./2019 às 9:27
#7
Almightybum 2/nov./2019 às 9:24 
I find the attack pretty good saved my skin a few times. with loads of mg a attack on the grasshopper is like 90 damage punch that is almost 4 medium lasers. the small laser or mg activate that is more damage on top 1 hit with all the fire power can blow up a leg or maybe a ct looking at lots of damage
#8
Wantoomany 2/nov./2019 às 9:56 
There is nothing sweeter then a flying judo kick into the cockpit of a pristine enemy assault mech.
#9
pmcollectorboy 2/nov./2019 às 10:24 
Except a called shot AC20 to the cockpit that actually lands.
#10
neil 2/nov./2019 às 11:28 
Cullen Hedgerow Device (July 1944) is just ONE example of a tank with a Battering ram
Numerous accounts of tanks ramming other tanks, battle of Prokhorovka (Kursk July 1943) for example
hell even M1A3 Abrams and others have ram attachments now for removing berms surrounding dug in enemy units

I can go on and on

So the answer is LOTS mate
Just read your history and not so history texts

But for Mechs
I just say watch Godzilla vs Mechgodzilla for an example
Long before Battletech or any other Manga thought it up
#11
xunlaiAgent 2/nov./2019 às 17:29 
Right but imo the melee system should be expanded. I wonder if the modders could mod in the Jaguar from one must fall, complete with its signature move: a flip in the air where it grabs the enemy mech upside down and then throws it several hundred meters. Have that do 300-1500 damage on the mech depending on if it falls of a cliff and so on.

Well maybe that would be a bit too op, but special melee attacks like grabs that have a higher chance of knocking down the enemy could be a thing.
Última edição por xunlaiAgent; 2/nov./2019 às 17:38
#12
Menace 2/nov./2019 às 18:40 
I've made a close range juggernaut type of mech before with a bunch of close range weaponry. I've one shot them before, and if not one shot, it does significant amount of damage. The trick is to get them up close to do that.
Última edição por Menace; 2/nov./2019 às 18:40
#13
Battleseed 2/nov./2019 às 22:00 
Escrito originalmente por ZyF:
When's the last time you saw a battering ram on a tank?
Tanks don't melee. Mechs are not tanks. Nice bait.
#14
Chaon 2/nov./2019 às 22:08 
Escrito originalmente por ZyF:
When's the last time you saw a battering ram on a tank?

Melee is a thing because a Bettlemech is not just a tank on legs but a humanoid(ish) battle machine that can kick, punch or headbutt an enemy to cause massive, pinpoint damage.

Melee attacks have been part of Battletech from the very beginning and the only real complaint is that they didn't code in all the various melee attacks from table top that we love.
#15
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BATTLETECH > Discussões gerais > Detalhes do tópico
Publicado em: 2/nov./2019 às 8:04
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