PPC - to use or remove all?

[Davien]

Just read a number of comments on the web that PPCs were nerfed last year.. should I replace them with AC and LRM/SRMs instead? Or if no slots are available just switch to lasers?

Read that they can -1 hit and that it's stackable.. does it do much if it keeps missing shots? (from my playthroughs)

Thanks for the advice in advance.

[Asmosis]

what do you mean be they can -1 hit?

[Horus]

Personally I find the 50 damage to be ludicrously low compared to the 36 heat it puts out. Yes, it disturbs enemies' sensors, and that makes it useful if you have an enemy that is more trouble than most, but still... Not sure it's worth having except on the most heat favored designs.

[wesnef]

Yeah, they weren't nerfed as far as I remember. They're just too hot, especially since Large Lasers were buffed last year to make less heat.

So my typical thing to do is replace PPCs with LLs + other stuff.


(That said, in my latest Career I lucked into a Highlander 733P very early on when I had not a lot of gear in stock. So I put on 3 PPCs and a couple dozen heatsinks - it can fire slmost continuously, even in Desert :D)

Originally posted by Asmosis:

what do you mean be they can -1 hit?

Getting hit by a PPC gives you a "sensor interference" debuff, -1 to hit for the next turrn.

[danko9696]

PPCs where boosted after vanilla, not nerfed. They got slightly reduced heat generation and a -1 stackable debuff, which alone is not very noticeable.

In general I'd say they are underwhelming and as wesnef says LLs are much better in general (they got a much bigger buff), shorter range but the +++ LL variant has +dmg and +accuracy, the heat now is quite good for a long range weapon and are relatively easy to boat.

That said, PPCs can be good in some very niche setups with endgame equipment, like a 5xPPC Atlas-II. Now the mostly inconsequential debuff becomes substantial because there are five of them, a -25% to hit is quite decent if you're also dealing damage at the same time. And the heat in manageable thanks to several TTS++ and DHS, allowing to fire many times in a row all PPCs. But that makes it not as much of a sniper (although it can be) but more of support mech, because if you expect to kill that same round the target using Precision Shot the debuff is useless. But if for example you PSed before with two other mechs and now with your PPC boat target a different mech with a regular attack where you wouldn't expect to kill, that -25% debuff can be handy. Another example you have three foes, one of them is a 100t mech bulwarked in cover and the other two are easier to deal, so the PPC boat targets without PS the hardest one and the rest of your lance focus on killing the softer ones first, so the next turn all your lance can focus at a single mech.

[Davien]

thanks guys... will just use it till I get better mechs/weapons.
so far having only 1-2 PPCs per team.
1 shot only 1 bullet.. it's a hit or a miss. Plus that huge weight per PPC and heat generation makes me consider much now of using them. Lower damage too compare to other similar range weapons.

[Happygamer]

I now only use ppcs if they have a bonus damage to stability, that bonus is large enough to offset the heat build up.

[Asmosis]

It really depends on what you have available. What mechs, and what stuff has +/++/+++ ratings. Most engagements arent long enough to warrant more than a ton of ammo per weapon though, so ballistics/srms do tend to smudge ahead.

[Bosmang]

PPCs give you high damage + stability damage. LLs cannot do that. If you set up a sniper mech (Vindicators and Catapults work well), just mount two PPCs and fill the rest of the tonnage out with heatsinks... You can actually get a good rate of fire, but you CANNOT alpha every round.

I build my lances: 1 recon. 1 outrider, and 2 lancers--1 sniper, 1 LRM. Using dual PPCs and enough LRMs, I can get knockdowns almost every turn. It works great.

[Bad Brad]

I love PPC's. Good damage, excellent range, stability damage + reduces the enemies accuracy. That's a fair trade for being heavy and hot!

[Madcain]

i use all ppc+++ that gives a ridiculous amount of stability damage. combined with 2-3 srm6+++ on all my other mechs. i usually knock everything down each round.

against assault mechs i simply take out their head in 1 round with the amount of srm6 i have.

[Sam Look]

A PPC on light mech like the Panther can be excellent, the reason for this is the built in heat sinks, this often results in a lot of light mechs not really stressing their heatsinks in the first place.
The damage output can be devestating to other light mechs in early fights.
Heat to damage becomes more and more pronounced as a stat the more heatsinks you are required to fit.
Stat for stat though, the PPC is pretty poor once you reach the point where your fitting heatsinks.

[wendigo211]

To me the problems with the PPC are that:

1. You can do called shots in this game. So doing a big hit to one location isn't as important as being able to do a lot of damage in general.
   
2. The visual range in this game is so short the range of the PPC doesn't really get a chance to shine. It's a bit better for the enemy since that reinforcing lance can shoot at you from across the map. But with only a lance under your command you're less likely to leave a mech a large distance from the others. Unlike the LRM you also need a clear LOS, which can pose a problem on some of the maps.
   
3. It has a minimum range. Once you have a high Tactics skill you can eliminate this penalty completely, but it's not great for early/mid game.
   
4. It runs hotter than in tabletop. The tabletop PPC is 10 damage for 10 heat (which translates to 50 damage for 30 heat in game). The game version is 50 damage for 35 heat. It might not sound like much (and the game's heat meter is a lot more generous than the tabletop one), but needing an extra 2 heat sinks per PPC does hurt.
   
5. The large laser does 10 points less damage, but is 2 tons lighter and only generates 18 heat. So would you rather have 4 large lasers (160 damage, 72 heat) and an extra heat sink, or 3 PPCs (150 damage, 105 heat)? With ++damage versions the large lasers start looking even better.
   
6. Stability damage starts becoming less useful as enemy weight increases, and enemy mechwarriors get higher piloting skills.

I've used them a couple of times, and I did play around with 3 PPC mech on a pilot with breaching shot (hit three targets in a round for full damage and a small targeting debuff). It just didn't mesh with my playstyle.

[mig-77]

PPC have some uses in certain mech types. I actually found that they were very usefull in my Grashopper lance (max armor, 4 ml, 1 ppc, 4 jumpjets and rest tonnage for heat sinks. All mech have also targeting computer so they can see longer range than normal).

Tactic with those is that 1 mech is always bait and 3 rest will support with PPC's outside of enemy view. When enemy get close to bait mech (usually in forest to get cover/bulwark) it can fire 2 rounds with all weapons (150 damage) and then it just jumps away and some other will take the bait role. Rince and repeat until all enemies are destoyed.

[red255]

Yeah, PPC are common as dirt.

they have a minimum range of 90M but you can reduce that to 0 with tactics.

the main issue is they do 50 damage and 38 heat, compared to the 40 damage and 18 heat of large lasers.

its just a horrible heat efficency for damage.

they do Stability damage though. its just I'd rather get a mech and load it out with large lasers to chop off an enemy MECs leg if I want to tip it over.

I.E. you get two Jaegers or whatever that 65 Ton heavy you typically get as a first decent heavy mec, load it up with 4 large lasers, thats 160 damage. first one lops off a leg, second one lops off the other leg, GG.

its up to you, the PPCs heat generation just is excessive compared to large lasers, its just PPC are SUPER common, and large lasers not as much.

[Charlemagne]

Do PPC's have a hidden negative to hit modifier? Because they miss too often even with supposed percentages of 70, 80, 90... Aside from heat effciency, this is a reason I don't like them too much.