How to build a good melee mech

[Mhorge]

G'day,

As per subject title, what talents to take, and what mech to use. I've googled it but results I've got are of previous builds of the game when we still had Juggernaut (which was to knock enemy initiative back one right?)

At the moment my 'main' melee mech is a Banshee BNC-3M, but it's so ponderously slow (if not exceptionally well armed) that I'm sorta wondering whether it's really pulling it's weight.

[Shinobi273]

Banshee is a great melee mech that you can get early on. Check the melee and DFA damage stat for mechs. Also consider movement distance and add jump jets. Mount support weapons to fire while you melee. I would suggest piloting skill for increased hit chance and movement distance. I like to have a banshee early on while gunnery and tactics are low for the massive damage against mediums. Max armor and JJ, don't worry about too many medium range weapons or heatsinks. Sprint and jump to into melee range and forget about walking and firing.

[Metadragon]

Grasshopper can mount 6 MGs or SLs in addition to 7 ML with 0 minimum distance for a truly catastrophic alpha strike and good melee

[wendigo211]

The things a good melee mech wants are:

• High base melee damage
  
• Lots of support slots
  
• Good speed and jump jets (it wants to close distance quickly)
  
• Good armor (it's going to get hit more than other mechs in your lance)

By weight class the best melee mechs in the game are:

• Light: Firestarter
  
• Medium: Shadowhawk-2D variant
  
• Heavy: Grasshopper (although it's point blank alpha is much better than its melee attack, so if you close to melee range, you'll probably want to alpha strike instead of making a melee attack)
  
• Assault: Banshee-3M variant

If you're only talking about melee, then the Banshee 3M is your mech. It hits hard (only the Atlas and King Crab have a higher melee attack), has a good movement rate (same speed as the Grasshopper) and can mount 6 support weapons that can be fired during a melee attack. That said, it's overall performance is worse than the Grasshopper due to a lack of free space, and the need to field heavier jump jets. But if you don't care about mid range firepower, then the 3M has about the best melee attack you can manage while still having decent mobility. For overall utility while having a good melee attack, the Grasshopper is the best mech you can field.

Edit: For your mechwarrior, you want Guts 4 for Bulwark (really the only ability that is going to directly benefit a melee mech). For your other specialization, probably go down tactics for Sensor Lock and Master Tactitian. Ace Pilot could also be useful I suppose, but you probably want a Vanguard mechwarrior in your melee mech.

[L37]

IMO without mods trying to build something specifically focused on melee is kind of pointless.
Since you can only attack after walking getting into range is hard, and often when you do get close enough... it makes more sense to jump and shoot support weapons into rear CT instead of hitting frontal armour with melee. Damage is not that great either, compared to what you can get with weapons, and considering that each time you get into melee you expose your back and have a chance of AI returning the favor (and each melee attack against you is always a chance of one hit kill if it hits the head),

[Cervidal]

Originally posted by L37:

IMO without mods trying to build something specifically focused on melee is kind of pointless.

Never done 140 damage to a leg or head, have you?

Melee is also a helluva way to strip evasion.

Re: Banshee above - I don't think the jump jets are strictly necessary. Unless you're in a mission that rushes time, you can usually slow roll your front line up. The Banshee's standard movement is just fine once your team is exposed and the enemy comes crashing up to you.

A maxed armor Banshee can soak up a lot of that LRM fire while closing in without too much worry.

[L37]

Originally posted by Cervidal:

Never done 140 damage to a leg or head, have you?

Melee is also a helluva way to strip evasion.

How that 140 is meaningfully different from, for example, 120 from AC20 without all associated maneuvering and related risks?
Not enough to destroy a leg, enough to destory head with 2% chance. With guns you at least can improve that with called shot and multiple shots per attack.
Also 140 damage + ~140 more from support weapons is pitifully low damage for assault at close range, you can have almost twice as much in medium range (and focused into single part with called shot), with AC20 for large single hit damage if you want that.

Against evasive/smaller targets melee is occasionaly useful, yes. When they are stupid enough to end their turn in your melee range. Do not need specialized mech for this though, any mech can do it as neded and almost any large mech will naturally have good melee damage.

[Lack of Stuff]

Banshee 3M with 2 arm mods to bring the melee hit up to 250 and a mix of MLs, SLs, and MGs. Use it break guard with enemies that try to clam up and completely devastate anything smaller than you. ECM has only made it stronger.

If you want something more mobile then the Shadowhawk with arm mods gets a beefy 205 melee hit and a few support weapons.

The Grasshopper and Firestarter are both decent at melee but I think their true value are as shooty backstabbers.

[danko9696]

Originally posted by Lack of Stuff:

Banshee 3M with 2 arm mods to bring the melee hit up to 250 and a mix of MLs, SLs, and MGs. Use it break guard with enemies that try to clam up and completely devastate anything smaller than you. ECM has only made it stronger.

I think you're asking too much of the Banshee and it's like you're describing the Grasshopper instead. The 3M with 2xArm++ (250 melee dmg) 4xJJ and 5xMG has 20t for armor left, not much room for MLs and SLs. The Grasshopper with 2xArm++ 2xArm+ (230 melee dmg) 4xMG 5xML 4xDHS (for the jump+ML alpha) has 3t less armor but adds some decent medium range firepower, cooling for those MLs and improved initiative. Probably not as good as a pure melee mech ("probably" and not for certain just because init still is good for meleeing) but still very close and a lot more flexible, way better overall.

And of course, like L37 said, if you go the ML+SL route with the GRH, that's much better. Pure melee can be quite fun but it's not very effective against heavies/assaults, too random and risky, when you can just unload a lot of aimed firepower from a much safer front facing position where you can be easily supported by other mechs instead of exposing your back to potential foes while trying to backstab.

[Trolleur_Durden]

For me, melee is more a last resort than a viable strategy by itself. I tend to use it against light mechs with a lot of evasion, or as a substitute to regular attacks when I need to vent some heat. But I have lost enough mechwarriors to melee headshots to learn my lesson.

[Lack of Stuff]

Originally posted by danko9696:

Originally posted by Lack of Stuff:

Banshee 3M with 2 arm mods to bring the melee hit up to 250 and a mix of MLs, SLs, and MGs. Use it break guard with enemies that try to clam up and completely devastate anything smaller than you. ECM has only made it stronger.

I think you're asking too much of the Banshee and it's like you're describing the Grasshopper instead. The 3M with 2xArm++ (250 melee dmg) 4xJJ and 5xMG has 20t for armor left, not much room for MLs and SLs. The Grasshopper with 2xArm++ 2xArm+ (230 melee dmg) 4xMG 5xML 4xDHS (for the jump+ML alpha) has 3t less armor but adds some decent medium range firepower, cooling for those MLs and improved initiative. Probably not as good as a pure melee mech ("probably" and not for certain just because init still is good for meleeing) but still very close and a lot more flexible, way better overall.

And of course, like L37 said, if you go the ML+SL route with the GRH, that's much better. Pure melee can be quite fun but it's not very effective against heavies/assaults, too random and risky, when you can just unload a lot of aimed firepower from a much safer front facing position where you can be easily supported by other mechs instead of exposing your back to potential foes while trying to backstab.

I use a melee BNC with full armor 5 MLs, 3 SLs, 2 MGs and 1 ton of MG ammo and it's worked fine against up to 3 full assault lances so far. Have yet to lose a part. Neither JJs nor heatsinks have been useful since I'm in punching more often then shooting. I tried a Grasshopper before and it's armor was too low if it happened to catch a lucky shot I could lose valuable equipment.

I wouldn't take it up against a human player but that's a completely different ballgame.

[AikenAidan]

Originally posted by Shinobi273:

Banshee is a great melee mech that you can get early on. Check the melee and DFA damage stat for mechs. Also consider movement distance and add jump jets. Mount support weapons to fire while you melee. I would suggest piloting skill for increased hit chance and movement distance. I like to have a banshee early on while gunnery and tactics are low for the massive damage against mediums. Max armor and JJ, don't worry about too many medium range weapons or heatsinks. Sprint and jump to into melee range and forget about walking and firing.

Early on in the game? The 1st planet I flew to had the banshee for sale at almost 8 Million CBs . How did you start with over 8 million . Returning to the planet even if it was just short hop away and back it was gone. Just a TEASE.

[JC]

I've been looking for a Hatchetman, any idea what area of space these things spawn more often? I'm pretty sure they are good melee mechs and i wanna try one!

[terrycpa1972]

Did you already do the flashpoint where the Hatchetman is introduced? It won't appear in the opfor until you do that flashpoint.

[Mhorge]

Originally posted by terrycpa1972:

Did you already do the flashpoint where the Hatchetman is introduced? It won't appear in the opfor until you do that flashpoint.

I'm guessing that means you can't get them in the campaign then?

[spinaltap73]

The Banshee is a fun little toy for melee. That's about all it's good for. I've used the meat shield strat, and had good results. The cockpit mod is must have, along with max armor and pop gun weapons.