Slam R - the anti armor weapon that sucks against armor.

[PatchesIX]

Transport helicopters: 3 direct hits
Attack helicopter: 2 hits

what is this?

if you fire a shell as dense as the one in this weapon its more than likely to K.O a helicopter in 1 let alone 2 hits.

ravenfield has some of the worst damage systems ive ever seen.
ive read a little bit up on why it was nerf'd but that begs the question why there isnt 2 seperate systems for damage...

[Riot Control]

How dod you make a RPG have 2 systems of damage? In fact, there is 2 systems of damage, such as a multiplier for one explosive shot or being completely immune to normal bullets.

[Sasha Mason]

I guess you haven't seen the Scalpel then. Only a single shot that you cannot resupply. Not enough to take down armor, too little ammo to be any danger to aircraft, and of course, you can only use it with a lock.

AFAIK all three anti tank weapons deal the same amount of damage. The SLAM-R is pretty much only useful if you want to hit something at a distance because of the faster projectile velocity, lesser drop and of course, the neat zoom you have on it.

And transport helis are flying fortresses basically.

[PatchesIX]

Originally posted by oww oof my bones oof oof:

How dod you make a RPG have 2 systems of damage? In fact, there is 2 systems of damage, such as a multiplier for one explosive shot or being completely immune to normal bullets.

2 systems:

the 1st: Shrapnel/Explosion: the only enemies vulnerable to this kind of damage are ground units and MAYBE those in light vehicles like a jeep

the 2nd: Penetration: enemies hit directly will experience significant damage i.e Anti-tank rounds from the Slam R

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

I guess you haven't seen the Scalpel then. Only a single shot that you cannot resupply. Not enough to take down armor, too little ammo to be any danger to aircraft, and of course, you can only use it with a lock.

AFAIK all three anti tank weapons deal the same amount of damage. The SLAM-R is pretty much only useful if you want to hit something at a distance because of the faster projectile velocity, lesser drop and of course, the neat zoom you have on it.

And transport helis are flying fortresses basically.

1. this isnt about the scalpel or the hydra - point in case those accomplish their jobs well enough alone. the AT rifle (Slam R) doesnt accopmplish what it sets out to achieve.

2.) the point is that it shouldnt just be "Base" damage. the Slam R is clearly using a very dense projectile and explosive damage should even be a factor considering its not made for taking out infantry. as i mentioned before these anti armor weapons should have 2 different types of damage especially considering their specializations.

EDIT: one thing to note, the only flying fortress deserving of that much health are bombers and to an extend attack planes.

helicopters are incredibly vulnerable to anti-armor especially considering their weak points. esentially hitting them practically anywhere would take them out in one way or another

[Hijong park]

He nerfed it because bot helicopters couldn't even stand a chance.

SLAM-R used to be an one shot to destroy helicopter, and because of it bot helicopter's average survival time was about 70 seconds.

[Riot Control]

Originally posted by Hijong park:

He nerfed it because bot helicopters couldn't even stand a chance.

SLAM-R used to be an one shot to destroy helicopter, and because of it bot helicopter's average survival time was about 70 seconds.

Park is right. The chopper was literally a flying coffin.

[PatchesIX]

Originally posted by oww oof my bones oof oof:

Originally posted by Hijong park:

He nerfed it because bot helicopters couldn't even stand a chance.

SLAM-R used to be an one shot to destroy helicopter, and because of it bot helicopter's average survival time was about 70 seconds.

Park is right. The chopper was literally a flying coffin.

bombers used to be refered to as "flying coffins"

transport helicopters could just as easily be replaced with paratrooping planes ( i cant think of the terminology) that bots could spawn in and drop out of which would reduce the losses of that aircraft.

as for the attack helicopter movement and altitude are key, i can easily dodge most projectiles especially those on a fixed path (rocketes / ATrifle rounds)

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

I guess you haven't seen the Scalpel then. Only a single shot that you cannot resupply. Not enough to take down armor, too little ammo to be any danger to aircraft, and of course, you can only use it with a lock.

AFAIK all three anti tank weapons deal the same amount of damage. The SLAM-R is pretty much only useful if you want to hit something at a distance because of the faster projectile velocity, lesser drop and of course, the neat zoom you have on it.

And transport helis are flying fortresses basically.

No, I think the damage is Scalpel> Dagger > SLAM-R.
SLAM-R has longer reload, faster projectile speed (and possibly more flat trajectory) and better aim down sight visibility and zoom.
Dagger has the most firepower but worst effective range (unless you are bot)
Scalpel is the only effective missile, but it has only one ammo.

Before the scalpal ammo nerf, the average life for a player helicopter was like 30 seconds, or, 10 seconds after the flare has been released.
The thing is, an infantry is not supposed to be able to take down an aircraft, at all. After the bots are given skalpels all planes were shot to ♥♥♥♥♥, unless you were flying OP mod planes.

[Hijong park]

Originally posted by PatchesIX:

Originally posted by oww oof my bones oof oof:

Park is right. The chopper was literally a flying coffin.

bombers used to be refered to as "flying coffins"

transport helicopters could just as easily be replaced with paratrooping planes ( i cant think of the terminology) that bots could spawn in and drop out of which would reduce the losses of that aircraft.

as for the attack helicopter movement and altitude are key, i can easily dodge most projectiles especially those on a fixed path (rocketes / ATrifle rounds)

With planes, you can't land and take paratroopers again. That's probably why transport planes are not added.

[PatchesIX]

Originally posted by Hijong park:

Originally posted by PatchesIX:

bombers used to be refered to as "flying coffins"

transport helicopters could just as easily be replaced with paratrooping planes ( i cant think of the terminology) that bots could spawn in and drop out of which would reduce the losses of that aircraft.

as for the attack helicopter movement and altitude are key, i can easily dodge most projectiles especially those on a fixed path (rocketes / ATrifle rounds)

With planes, you can't land and take paratroopers again. That's probably why transport planes are not added.

they wouldnt land - they would spawn inside, although if you want to get down to it you probably could land one if you wanted to.

[OVKHuman]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

I guess you haven't seen the Scalpel then. Only a single shot that you cannot resupply. Not enough to take down armor, too little ammo to be any danger to aircraft, and of course, you can only use it with a lock.

AFAIK all three anti tank weapons deal the same amount of damage. The SLAM-R is pretty much only useful if you want to hit something at a distance because of the faster projectile velocity, lesser drop and of course, the neat zoom you have on it.

And transport helis are flying fortresses basically.

No, I think the damage is Scalpel> Dagger > SLAM-R.
SLAM-R has longer reload, faster projectile speed (and possibly more flat trajectory) and better aim down sight visibility and zoom.
Dagger has the most firepower but worst effective range (unless you are bot)
Scalpel is the only effective missile, but it has only one ammo.

Before the scalpal ammo nerf, the average life for a player helicopter was like 30 seconds, or, 10 seconds after the flare has been released.
The thing is, an infantry is not supposed to be able to take down an aircraft, at all. After the bots are given skalpels all planes were shot to ♥♥♥♥♥, unless you were flying OP mod planes.

and the scalpal is modeled after the javelin which is a AT missile not a antiair weapon

[Sasha Mason]

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Before the scalpal ammo nerf, the average life for a player helicopter was like 30 seconds, or, 10 seconds after the flare has been released.
The thing is, an infantry is not supposed to be able to take down an aircraft, at all. After the bots are given skalpels all planes were shot to ♥♥♥♥♥, unless you were flying OP mod planes.

That was only true if you had no idea what you were doing. It works just fine in Battlefield games as well. Why? Because players either adapt and get their aircraft behind cover or fly away far enough for the lock on to not work. I've never had any problems with Scalpels shooting me down ever. I've had plenty of trouble getting targeted by some SLAM-R sniper.

And right now, the Scalpel is useless against everything. The main purpose of that should be AT, but a single missile won't kill a tank. A single missile also won't even damage aircraft, and the attack heli needs two hits (transport even more).

[Kasket007]

I look at the SlamR as the rocket launcher I give to bots over the Dagger for two reasons -

1. Explosion Radius isn't instakill

2. Gives vehicles more of a chance to survive

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

Originally posted by boris.glevrk:

Before the scalpal ammo nerf, the average life for a player helicopter was like 30 seconds, or, 10 seconds after the flare has been released.
The thing is, an infantry is not supposed to be able to take down an aircraft, at all. After the bots are given skalpels all planes were shot to ♥♥♥♥♥, unless you were flying OP mod planes.

That was only true if you had no idea what you were doing. It works just fine in Battlefield games as well. Why? Because players either adapt and get their aircraft behind cover or fly away far enough for the lock on to not work. I've never had any problems with Scalpels shooting me down ever. I've had plenty of trouble getting targeted by some SLAM-R sniper.

And right now, the Scalpel is useless against everything. The main purpose of that should be AT, but a single missile won't kill a tank. A single missile also won't even damage aircraft, and the attack heli needs two hits (transport even more).

In BF2 you can just switch to non-pilot seats (and switch back later), it causes the missile to go ballistic first time, everytime.
That doesn't work in Ravenfield.

The thing is not about how long you can survive in something, it's about infantries being too strong, threatening the value of having aircrafts.

Infantries are not supposed to be able to counter armored vehicles alone, and they shouldn't even be able to pose a threat to air assets without using stationary weapons. If every one of 60-100 infantries can take down a plane alone, what's the point of having planes, at all?

[Sasha Mason]

So you're casually ignoring the later Battlefield games where that doesn't work and pilot still managed to reliably survive missile attacks, even though every aircraft was equipped with two missiles and every infrantry person could carry stingers if they wanted to?

I guess the problem then would be that the chance for a bot to carry a launcher is just too high because let's be honest, infantry shooting down aircrafts with ease was a problem ever since bots got their hands on the Dagger way before the Steam release. I was glad when the Scalpel was usable because that meant that bots now had a higher chance of using an easily counterable lock on weapons instead of that Sniper-R shot from forever away that you didn't see coming. But if bots would use less launcher weapons, you'd have more bots using using grenades so it's going to be an explosive spam one way or another.

I guess the only way to really fix it is if there were more gadgets overall that bots could pick, or limit the bot gadget slots to two instead of three (keep it three for the player since it wouldn't be good if people running launchers 24/7 would have to get used to not being able to have anything else with them if they do that). Then there'd be a higher chance that bots would fill their slots with something else than launchers.



I'll still stick to my opinion that the Scalpel needs to be buffed again because right now, it is useless against everything and both the Dagger and SLAM-R are superior in every single way.

[boris.glevrk]

Originally posted by Mason™ of Germany:

So you're casually ignoring the later Battlefield games where that doesn't work and pilot still managed to reliably survive missile attacks, even though every aircraft was equipped with two missiles and every infrantry person could carry stingers if they wanted to?

I guess the problem then would be that the chance for a bot to carry a launcher is just too high because let's be honest, infantry shooting down aircrafts with ease was a problem ever since bots got their hands on the Dagger way before the Steam release. I was glad when the Scalpel was usable because that meant that bots now had a higher chance of using an easily counterable lock on weapons instead of that Sniper-R shot from forever away that you didn't see coming. But if bots would use less launcher weapons, you'd have more bots using using grenades so it's going to be an explosive spam one way or another.

I guess the only way to really fix it is if there were more gadgets overall that bots could pick, or limit the bot gadget slots to two instead of three (keep it three for the player since it wouldn't be good if people running launchers 24/7 would have to get used to not being able to have anything else with them if they do that). Then there'd be a higher chance that bots would fill their slots with something else than launchers.



I'll still stick to my opinion that the Scalpel needs to be buffed again because right now, it is useless against everything and both the Dagger and SLAM-R are superior in every single way.

It worked in 2142 as well, and AFAIK 2142 was the last BF game that allows multiplayer-ish gameplay in single player mode.

Yeah, it's weird that rocket launchers are more effective against aircraft than missiles... I actually suggested nerfing the SLAM-R's projectile speed, trajectory and/or maximum firing angle about a year ago.

I think the game has to distinguish locking on an air target and locking on a ground one, and perhaps we can make 2 different versions of scalpel, one exclusive for aerial targets, and one exclusive for ground and naval targets. Infantry want to take down planes? sure, you'll have not room for anti-tank, and vice versa, you just have to choose one.