Collapse debuff is still way too strong

[marthan]

I'm very surprised and a little annoyed that this wasn't fixed in the most recent patch along with the other balancing changes.

Basically, the collapse debuff that the void-corrupted enemies can inflict on you makes it way too easy to get insta-killed. On paper, the concept of void enemies being able to use the same new items from the DLC that the player can use is pretty cool and for the most part is also fine in practice. But some items just need to be scaled appropriately for when the player has to deal with said items themselves like the Needletick.

Take the existence of Lesser Wisps for example.
Lesser wisps often spawn in large groups with let's say 3-4 of them. Their main drawback that keeps them from destroying most players is that they don't do that much damage on their own. But once they have Needletick, that drawback just goes out the window because of how easy it is for them to just slightly damage you and inflict collapse.

A way to balance this could either be to just scale down the damage taken from collapse or to make it so that each stack of collapse on the player doesn't hit all at once so that if the player has a means to heal, then they at least have a chance of preventing it from killing them.

[JustKampi]

The enemy that killed me most times in this DLC was the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ SQUID POLYP.

[KellyR]

Good, I'm glad they didn't nerf it too much. Game is boring if nothing can kill you.

[Kazuli]

Originally posted by KellyR:

Good, I'm glad they didn't nerf it too much. Game is boring if nothing can kill you.

yeah, except considering the whole game requires you to snowball if you want to have fun, adding more one shot mechanics is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid, and you're a clown for thinking so.

[marthan]

Originally posted by KellyR:

Good, I'm glad they didn't nerf it too much. Game is boring if nothing can kill you.

I guess that's a fair point of view, but if I wanted the kind of unfair challenge that the collapse effect poses then I would just play Eclipse.

[marthan]

Originally posted by Kurizu:

Originally posted by KellyR:

Good, I'm glad they didn't nerf it too much. Game is boring if nothing can kill you.

yeah, except considering the whole game requires you to snowball if you want to have fun, adding more one shot mechanics is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stupid, and you're a clown for thinking so.

bro chill lol

[[PMC] Portable Merc Collector]

I don't mind one-shot mechanics that much if they're fair. Key word "fair". For me this debuff is the thing I don't like the most about the DLC. At least with other instakill moves you can avoid them or see them clearly telegraphed so you know it was your fault you died. Collapse just feels like you get punished way too much for getting hit ONCE by, honestly far too many enemies, it's not it instakilling me that I mind, it's how often I come across it and how little options there are to play around it that hate.

[marthan]

Originally posted by I.M.P Ranger PMC:

I don't mind one-shot mechanics that much if they're fair. Key word "fair". For me this debuff is the thing I don't like the most about the DLC. At least with other instakill moves you can avoid them or see them clearly telegraphed so you know it was your fault you died. Collapse just feels like you get punished way too much for getting hit ONCE by, honestly far too many enemies, it's not it instakilling me that I mind, it's how often I come across it and how little options there are to play around it that hate.

Yeah I completely agree, it's just how often it comes up and how hard it is to avoid in some stages where there'll sometimes be like 2-3 void fields in a stage and the TP is in one of them and you just have to deal with these void enemies that are all stacked with Needletick.

[ArtemisHunt]

Blast Shower GGEZ

[Fangrilo]

from my pov: I haven't died to collapse once since the dlc released, so I wouldn't say it makes it too difficult. I don't mean to brag, just saying that it's mostly preventable, but sometimes ♥♥♥♥ just kills you in this game, which is what keeps it fun imo. From the new DLC stuff it's usually the big lobster guys that kill me still learning how to deal with them

[Kyrie]

literally just prioritize void enemies higher than bosses and focus on dodging every attack over doing damage it's all very doable even clay templars if you have just a bit of cover or stun

[Crystal]

Items for monsters work the same for players, except they have much less stacks then you do, they cant stack as much Collapse as you can in a few seconds usually only 1 or 2, so heres how you survive, get a Flask, beacuse those sure as ♥♥♥♥, will save your life if its Collapse or not, That flask may seem like a joke, but in play, it is litterally a discount DIO's

[Mending Mithrix Main]

Originally posted by Crystal:

Items for monsters work the same for players, except they have much less stacks then you do, they cant stack as much Collapse as you can in a few seconds usually only 1 or 2, so heres how you survive, get a Flask, beacuse those sure as ♥♥♥♥, will save your life if its Collapse or not, That flask may seem like a joke, but in play, it is litterally a discount DIO's

this man knowes the value of teh flask

[Fangrilo]

Originally posted by Crystal:

Items for monsters work the same for players, except they have much less stacks then you do, they cant stack as much Collapse as you can in a few seconds usually only 1 or 2, so heres how you survive, get a Flask, beacuse those sure as ♥♥♥♥, will save your life if its Collapse or not, That flask may seem like a joke, but in play, it is litterally a discount DIO's

true, elixir made Dio's even more useless

[marthan]

Originally posted by Crystal:

Items for monsters work the same for players, except they have much less stacks then you do, they cant stack as much Collapse as you can in a few seconds usually only 1 or 2, so heres how you survive, get a Flask, beacuse those sure as ♥♥♥♥, will save your life if its Collapse or not, That flask may seem like a joke, but in play, it is litterally a discount DIO's

I think the fact that you need to rely on elixirs or Dio's under the assumption that you're probably going to lose all your health says a lot about the balance of enemy inflicted collapse.

[marthan]

Originally posted by cumwrangler III:

literally just prioritize void enemies higher than bosses and focus on dodging every attack over doing damage it's all very doable even clay templars if you have just a bit of cover or stun

Same as what I said above to Crystal where if the only way to reliably deal with collapse and actually come out on top is to simply "not get hit" then that inherently makes collapse way too much to feasibly deal with considering how varied the firing speed and accuracy is of the enemies in question since void infestors can corrupt any enemies.

If I wanted to play something that required the playstyle of just never getting hit then I would be playing Eclipse 8, not Monsoon.