Commando is just terrible.

[Juno]

What a crappy introduction to the game, TBH.

I've managed to do almost* everything in this game. Monsoon every character. And believe it or not, I don't use the artifacts. But I haven't touched the new Eclipse mode, so I wanted to complete that. Commando is the first character, so I wanted to start with him. Couldn't even get past the first boss with no items. I just couldn't do it. He's terrible.

The starting character, IMO, should be the LEAST item reliant character, the MOST consistent. And he's not that. His AOE is complete garbage, his single target is mediocre, his utility is bad too. He has nothing going for him!

He needs a straight damage increase IMO.

[EvolutionKills]

*shrugs*

I like Commando.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Jimmy Hunter:

Publicado originalmente por Rumi:

no they were very very clearly nerfed

So what you're saying is that a Fire Whirl no longer wandering off and doing it's full damage is a nerf?

yeah the bands were nerfed

[Zeddy]

I just can't consider "item that lets you consistently kill every boss in one hit" a nerf.

And no, you don't need a specific class to do that. Every survivor can easily reach Rallypoint in 10 minutes.

[Rodka]

Yup. No reason to play Commando when you've unlocked any other character.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Zeddy:

I just can't consider "item that lets you consistently kill every boss in one hit" a nerf.

And no, you don't need a specific class to do that. Every survivor can easily reach Rallypoint in 10 minutes.

not everyone lives for the phlog, and the damage is still capped at at most 3,000% per band per minute.

[Zeddy]

Publicado originalmente por Rumi:

not everyone lives for the phlog, and the damage is still capped at at most 3,000% per band per minute.

Do you just not understand how bands work? 300% of 4000% is a crazy amount of damage. Having it guaranteed on a big hit is insane.

I encourage you to run the numbers on how many times you'd have to proc it with piddly 45-90% damage double tap before you come close to just triggering it one time with preon.

There's a good dozen of other proc items supporting rate of fire attacks out there. This particular gap needed filling.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Zeddy:

Publicado originalmente por Rumi:

not everyone lives for the phlog, and the damage is still capped at at most 3,000% per band per minute.

Do you just not understand how bands work? 300% of 4000% is a crazy amount of damage. Having it guaranteed on a big hit is insane.

I encourage you to run the numbers on how many times you'd have to proc it with piddly 45-90% damage double tap before you come close to just triggering it one time with preon.

There's a good dozen of other proc items supporting rate of fire attacks out there. This particular gap needed filling.

so you have to ruin the bands instead of introducing a new item? thanks a ton

[Zeddy]

Run the numbers, Rumi.

Or maybe you just feel that strongly that Commando needs a buff?

[Senki]

That guy doesnt want to understand why the new bands are better and is not planning on using any real arguments anytime soon, you're better off arguing with a wall.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Zeddy:

Run the numbers, Rumi.

Or maybe you just feel that strongly that Commando needs a buff?

that's just a lot of damage every 150 seconds, meanwhile you could have activated the bands a lot more often and with more damage with the old bands. i'm sure of it.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Senki:

That guy doesnt want to understand why the new bands are better and is not planning on using any real arguments anytime soon, you're better off arguing with a wall.

likewise

[Zeddy]

Luckily for you, I enjoy running numbers. Since you said 150 seconds, we're not mixing in any other items like syringes.

I'm keeping the 300% damage since I don't remember the old value and the new bands now stack better, and we'll just pretend that makes it a wash. I believe the old proc chance was 8%. If you remember the old band damage (350%?), let me know I'll plug it into my calculator, but keep in mind it stacked worse so I would run the calculator with 10 bands for comparison.

Double tap (no bands): 27000%/min
Double tap (old bands): 33480%/min
Royal Capacitor (no bands): 9000%/min
Royal Capacitor (old bands): 11160%/min
Royal Capacitor (new bands): 36000%/min
Preon Accumulator (no bands): 1600%/min
Preon Accumulator (old bands): 1984%/min
Preon Accumulator (new bands): 6400%/min

As you can see, for double tap it was a roughly 24% increase in DPS (using only fireband and generously assuming the full, smaller tornado hit), while it quadruples the damage output on Royal Capacitor since it will trigger every time. Also worth noting is that the extra 27000% bands add to Royal Capacitor represents the entire damage output Commando puts out in one minute under optimal conditions. You might say "but syringes!", to which I say "ok, but also fuel cells and Gesture and new bands stack a lot harder than old bands".

Also worth considering is that Risk of Rain is not a JRPG anyway, combat happens in bursts and often more than 25m away, and I don't believe that even the most skilled mouseaimer in the world can maintain 100% accuracy with Commando while always shooting for an entire run. Pressing Q every 20 seconds is so simple even a baby could do it.

When you put Royal Capacitor in the mix, Commando not having any moves that trigger bands is honestly a good thing, because it means he can always use his skills and save the bands for Royal Capacitor where it matters, especially since we've already established that Royal Capacitor with bands is stronger than Commando himself.

Oh and for Preon the extra 4800% damage per minute is a bit lower than the extra 6480% for ideal conditions Commando, so I guess your hunch was right there assuming you don't care for having a 16000% nuke in which case I guess you just don't like Preon.

You might say mixing Royal Capacitor in is unfair since you can't guarantee it, however:

• I can count on my hand the amount of times I've left Sky Meadows without a Royal Cap between all the equip shops it has.
  
• Royal Cap was already the best item that you always pick.
  
• A Preon is fine too.
  
• Phase Round/Phase Blast can also trigger bands if they proc a single ATG.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Zeddy:

Luckily for you, I enjoy running numbers. Since you said 150 seconds, we're not mixing in any other items like syringes.

I'm keeping the 300% damage since I don't remember the old value and the new bands now stack better, and we'll just pretend that makes it a wash. I believe the old proc chance was 8%. If you remember the old band damage (350%?), let me know I'll plug it into my calculator, but keep in mind it stacked worse so I would run the calculator with 10 bands for comparison.

Double tap (no bands): 27000%/min
Double tap (old bands): 33480%/min
Royal Capacitor (no bands): 9000%/min
Royal Capacitor (old bands): 11160%/min
Royal Capacitor (new bands): 36000%/min
Preon Accumulator (no bands): 1600%/min
Preon Accumulator (old bands): 1984%/min
Preon Accumulator (new bands): 6400%/min

As you can see, for double tap it was a roughly 24% increase in DPS (using only fireband and generously assuming the full, smaller tornado hit), while it quadruples the damage output on Royal Capacitor since it will trigger every time. Also worth noting is that the extra 27000% bands add to Royal Capacitor represents the entire damage output Commando puts out in one minute under optimal conditions. You might say "but syringes!", to which I say "ok, but also fuel cells and Gesture and new bands stack a lot harder than old bands".

Also worth considering is that Risk of Rain is not a JRPG anyway, combat happens in bursts and often more than 25m away, and I don't believe that even the most skilled mouseaimer in the world can maintain 100% accuracy with Commando while always shooting for an entire run. Pressing Q every 20 seconds is so simple even a baby could do it.

When you put Royal Capacitor in the mix, Commando not having any moves that trigger bands is honestly a good thing, because it means he can always use his skills and save the bands for Royal Capacitor where it matters, especially since we've already established that Royal Capacitor with bands is stronger than Commando himself.

Oh and for Preon the extra 4800% damage per minute is a bit lower than the extra 6480% for ideal conditions Commando, so I guess your hunch was right there assuming you don't care for having a 16000% nuke in which case I guess you just don't like Preon.

You might say mixing Royal Capacitor in is unfair since you can't guarantee it, however:

• I can count on my hand the amount of times I've left Sky Meadows without a Royal Cap between all the equip shops it has.
  
• Royal Cap was already the best item that you always pick.
  
• A Preon is fine too.
  
• Phase Round/Phase Blast can also trigger bands if they proc a single ATG.

what if you don't want a royal capacitor or the phlog?

[Zeddy]

I don't know Rumi, usually what happens when you don't want to pick up good items in RoR2 is you die.

[Rumi]

Publicado originalmente por Zeddy:

I don't know Rumi, usually what happens when you don't want to pick up good items in RoR2 is you die.

yeah turns out the characters in this game need items to live and most of them can't survive without them, meaning commando isn't at fault for being a relatively blank slate