Dying on multiplayer is too punishing, and not fun

[Juno]

It forms a cycle, is the main problem. And if it happens early enough it can ruin you for the rest of the game.

Once you die even once, for the rest of that level you get no more items as your teammates grow stronger and the game gets harder. So, when you spawn back in next stage, the enemies are harder than you have the equipment for. This makes it easier for you to die the next stage, and the same thing as last happens but it gets more and more extreme. It sucks to be playing with a friend and see this happen. I don't like being utterly way more powerful than them, it's not fun.

So, my suggestion is to make a revive system. I have two possible ideas, first is to add an event where you go to your allies corpse, and you can activate something similar to the teleporter event. You get significantly harder enemies, but if you defeat them/hold out for long enough, your ally is revived. Or, on a simpler side, you have to save up money (maybe 10x a normal chest?) to revive them. It'd be nice if this 'buy' was more like a deposit, so you don't need all the money at once, meaning you and couple friends can buy it together.

I think death should be punishing, but in multiplayer it's just sad for everyone involved. I would rather take a large risk reviving an ally instead of forcing them to wait til next stage.

[kameltoes]

And this is the exact reason why people quit when they die in MP. Agree, a mechanic needs to be added which gives people who die reason to keep playing.

[eborpi]

Maybe they will will make a totally nerfed difficulty soon for you! Good luck with the game, Loserboy.

[Juno]

Originally posted by eborpi:

Maybe they will will make a totally nerfed difficulty soon for you! Good luck with the game, Loserboy.

I have no issues getting to celestial portal on monsoon most playthroughs. I think I'm pretty decent at the game.

I prefer to play with a friends, however. I know the concept of friends is a bit foreign to you, but when you have friends you want all of them to equally enjoy the game. So when a friend of mine cannot have fun as soon as they die once, the game proves to stop being fun for the rest of us.

Good luck with the game! -Loserboy

[Ittrix]

The issue is that death is supposed to be the end in single-player.
In single player, if you die, the game is over

Anything multiplayer does by comparison is going to be weak-sauce unless it actually kicks you out of the game.
Is that okay? Do we want death to mean nothing in multiplayer?
I'm guessing not, but we don't want to ruin the multiplayer match for one of the players too, since the stark contrast from solo is that they're still around after death unless they bail.

Finding a middle ground between turning death into a joke in multiplayer and not ruining the game for whoever died would be difficult, no matter how you slice it.

[TrueEvil]

This would be a lot less of an issue if the difficulty scaling was balanced well in multiplayer. +30% per player is just too much.

[kameltoes]

Originally posted by aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:

This would be a lot less of an issue if the difficulty scaling was balanced well in multiplayer. +30% per player is just too much.

And these effects are compounded when one or more people quit. This ultimately ruins the entire game for EVERYONE involved.

[Ittrix]

I think the bigger issue in multiplayer is that larger groups just tend to move slower, which isn't accounted for at alll. I guess that does still have something to do with the scaling.
I bet if you found 4 solo players who consistently could get to the celestial portal in monsoon, had them squad up and ensured they still followed the 5 minute rule, they'd win consistently in multiplayer too.

[Traveler]

Reviving would be great. I die a bunch of times randomly due to lag.

[Prophet419]

Originally posted by Achievements:

Reviving would be great. I die a bunch of times randomly due to lag.

Might wanna get better dial up

[Traveler]

Originally posted by MrSaltShaker:

Might wanna get better dial up

Nothing I can do if I'm only matched with NA players while on SA.

[Juno]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

The issue is that death is supposed to be the end in single-player.
In single player, if you die, the game is over

Anything multiplayer does by comparison is going to be weak-sauce unless it actually kicks you out of the game.
Is that okay? Do we want death to mean nothing in multiplayer?

Finding a middle ground between turning death into a joke in multiplayer and not ruining the game for whoever died would be difficult, no matter how you slice it.

I think making a revive system, as I said, similar to a teleporter event would work. The issue isn't "I'm bad, make game easier" it's that once you die, you can't get help, and if you die at a really bad time (start of round) then your bad for the rest of the game.

Making an event where you get significantly hard enemies you need to kill would work, I think. I don't want a balenced challenge, I purely just want the option (and possibility) to revive my friends.

[Tora! Tora! Tora!]

it's not supposed to be an easy game, having to play more carefully to catch back up is a good price to pay considering if it wasn't multiplayer your run would just be over

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by loserboy:

Originally posted by Ittrix:

The issue is that death is supposed to be the end in single-player.
In single player, if you die, the game is over

Anything multiplayer does by comparison is going to be weak-sauce unless it actually kicks you out of the game.
Is that okay? Do we want death to mean nothing in multiplayer?

Finding a middle ground between turning death into a joke in multiplayer and not ruining the game for whoever died would be difficult, no matter how you slice it.

I think making a revive system, as I said, similar to a teleporter event would work. The issue isn't "I'm bad, make game easier" it's that once you die, you can't get help, and if you die at a really bad time (start of round) then your bad for the rest of the game.

Making an event where you get significantly hard enemies you need to kill would work, I think. I don't want a balenced challenge, I purely just want the option (and possibility) to revive my friends.

I understand that that making the game easier isn't what it's about... but the effect is essentially the same.
In single player when you die the game ends.
In multiplayer when you die you can revive.
One of these things is easier than the other, regardless of intent.

The current system does allow for some come-back if you work with your team anyways. Teammates pick up a few more items in that round, and then the next round share some of their items with you. The only thing you sacrifice is time, which imo, is more than a fair sacrifice considering death in single player is game over.
Heck, you can also just be more careful and get your levels and items back yourself. It's like less than four items.

[Traveler]

Originally posted by Tora! Tora! Tora!:

it's not supposed to be an easy game, having to play more carefully to catch back up is a good price to pay considering if it wasn't multiplayer your run would just be over

It is easy though. After you unlock most things and depending on the character you take, you can reach a God run pretty easily on Monsoon single player.

I never even reached stage 7 on multiplayer.

[Juno]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

I understand that that making the game easier isn't what it's about... but the effect is essentially the same.
In single player when you die the game ends.
In multiplayer when you die you can revive.
One of these things is easier than the other, regardless of intent.

The current system does allow for some come-back if you work with your team anyways. Teammates pick up a few more items in that round, and then the next round share some of their items with you. The only thing you sacrifice is time, which imo, is more than a fair sacrifice considering death in single player is game over.
Heck, you can also just be more careful and get your levels and items back yourself. It's like less than four items.

People in quick match, and in just my friends games, tend to stick around longer than needed. It's not just 4 items, it's like 7 or 8, that is if you die somewhere around mid round. And playing 'safer' isn't possible when it's a game of random chance. If you stick with an ally, more monsters spawn. If you go alone, you still run the risk of getting a unlucky spawn of enemies and being overwhelmed. A character low on items, and especially immobile ones, will get decimated. And then they lose more items that round. And then they die next, and this doesn't stop until everyone dies.

Comparing single player to multiplayer is not valid. Single player is binary. If you die, the game ends. If someone picked up an item, you picked up the item. But in multiplayer, if you die the game can keep trucking. And as said before, once you die once, it becomes a repetition.

So, whats this players option now? I see three clear options.
1. Leave the game. Probably the best option for funs sake.
2. Rejoin next round, have your friends spare their items to boost your power (which overall worsens the teams power)
3. Rejoin next round, do not gain anything from your allies. (which sends you into a deeper spiral of badness)

I do not see how an unbalanced encounter would make the game easier. Effectively, you risk your life against a hard-ass fight to revive your buddy. And that's it. No money given, no award for other players, just that one dude gets revived.

I like my friends to be having fun, and when my ally dies, all I can do is watch them collect my stuff. I have a friend who was sadly really turned off by this game, because once they died they were forced to watch for 2-4 minutes just me collecting and doing the teleporter. It sucks. People play games to have fun. The thing that is nice about single player is that as soon as I die, I can hop back into a fun game. Unless if you want to take the '♥♥♥♥ move' then your just stuck waiting there until your allies finish.

In good game design, you punish bad gameplay- you don't punish the player through boredom, and then punish them through being worse than their allies.