Can we PLEASE finally get the option start as the Heretic?

[Spiked Wall Man]

I've unlocked the Heretic, I have beaten the game as the Heretic, but I am still forced to start the game as another character and then spend lunar coins just to do a Heretic run? Why?

[Snow.yyy...]

Because the Heretic is a transformation character, not uncommon in other roguelites and roguelikes. She's balanced for later levels. Besides, if you get lucky, you can get her before stage 2.

[Stefanonimo]

Because Heretic loses health as passive.

[Nyx (She/Her)]

hoenstly Heretic needs to not be a transformation character once unlocked. And the HP drain can go
she's underwhelming as ♥♥♥♥ for no reason

[Extremely Rare Sigma Gurdy Champ]

At the least can we unlock a weaker or "incomplete" version of the heretic as a starting character. The health loss isn't even an issue it has built in healing with its utility (Eclipse might be a different story).

[Ninja Zyborg]

Originally posted by ✿Vael✿:

hoenstly Heretic needs to not be a transformation character once unlocked. And the HP drain can go
she's underwhelming as ♥♥♥♥ for no reason

except that she's an above-average character

[Joshua Kurayami]

Originally posted by Snowyyyyyy:

Because the Heretic is a transformation character, not uncommon in other roguelites and roguelikes. She's balanced for later levels. Besides, if you get lucky, you can get her before stage 2.

Eh, transformation is one thing, but paying a ton of lunar coins just to be able to play as said character is not ideal, especially when it's temporary, don't really get anything from playing as the heretic and costs way too much for just one run (4 coins from lunar coins from lunar pods only, 8 coins if you buy them from lunar shop, 10 if you also used the altar.. and that's if you're either extremely lucky or using command to get everything. Meanwhile, it takes 10-11 coins just to unlock and play as artificer any time you want.)

[Snow.yyy...]

Originally posted by Joshua Kurayami:

Originally posted by Snowyyyyyy:

Because the Heretic is a transformation character, not uncommon in other roguelites and roguelikes. She's balanced for later levels. Besides, if you get lucky, you can get her before stage 2.

Eh, transformation is one thing, but paying a ton of lunar coins just to be able to play as said character is not ideal, especially when it's temporary, don't really get anything from playing as the heretic and costs way too much for just one run (4 coins from lunar coins from lunar pods only, 8 coins if you buy them from lunar shop, 10 if you also used the altar.. and that's if you're either extremely lucky or using command to get everything. Meanwhile, it takes 10-11 coins just to unlock and play as artificer any time you want.)

Fair, but we are talking Lunar Coins here, which only hold as much value as you give them. I personally don't do it, but if I ever felt like just playing Heretic over and over again, I would probably just get more Lunar Coins. It's as easy as editing a text file.

[Spiked Wall Man]

Originally posted by poopy:

Originally posted by Stefanonimo:

Because Heretic loses health as passive.

And considering how rough healing is at the start of a run unless you nail the RNG, most runs youll end up dead.

In my mind, that's a balance problem which hasn't been addressed probably because the character is so hard to unlock and gets largely ignored (at least in my experience). Shadowfade does heal so maybe the key issue is just rebalancing that. In its current state, by the time you transform into Heretic, you already have enough healing items that the healing capability of Shadowfade doesn't really matter that much so I don't see the harm in buffing it to allow you to play as Heretic starting at Stage 1.

Originally posted by Snowyyyyyy:

Fair, but we are talking Lunar Coins here, which only hold as much value as you give them. I personally don't do it, but if I ever felt like just playing Heretic over and over again, I would probably just get more Lunar Coins. It's as easy as editing a text file.

That is one way to look at it, but that could end up being quite a few Lunar coins if you aren't doing a command run and don't want to edit your save file. The sheer RNG required to spawn the 4 items required could lead to some runs that end before you get all 4 items even though you've been spending coins to open pods, enter the bazaar, buy the pieces that are for sale, etc. So I'm just tired of the hassle of all of that and would just prefer to be able to select the character and play any type of run I want with the Heretic without having to worry about any of that.

[The Face]

Originally posted by Snowyyyyyy:

It's as easy as editing a text file.

No, saying to just cheat it is not a balancing excuse on playing as the heretic

[Pmk]

She shouldn't be an unlockable character, but I wish there was a more direct way of turning into her. I don't cheat lunar coins, so getting her is something I almost never do because it's usually not worth the investment.

For example, it would be cool if each of the 4 required lunar was hidden somewhere and/or behind a challenge. It would make it less random to get and more interesting over all.

[the cup]

At the very least now you can go to the lunar shop and buy the Eulogy zero

[Nitro Toxico]

Originally posted by Pmk:

She shouldn't be an unlockable character, but I wish there was a more direct way of turning into her. I don't cheat lunar coins, so getting her is something I almost never do because it's usually not worth the investment.

For example, it would be cool if each of the 4 required lunar was hidden somewhere and/or behind a challenge. It would make it less random to get and more interesting over all.

When i for the first time got all the heretic items and turned into the heretic, i got surpriced it excisted. I thought it was just a normal lunar item like any of the others. Except one that lead to a secret ending. But the point of what im trying to say is that its more fun (for me) to be able to find them and get the chance to be the heretic. For new players that never knew about it, would get a nice treat of seeing it happen.

[Scaily]

the bird is fun but not realy to busted sure you have a heal but you also have hp drain sure you have a Aoe nuke but for max effect you need to charge ect ect . i can see where op is coming from but the heretic was a neat side thing for the start but i do agree after you see it big reveal and fully compleat a run with the bird you should have it as a unlockable option.

[Spiked Wall Man]

Originally posted by Nitro Toxico:

When i for the first time got all the heretic items and turned into the heretic, i got surpriced it excisted. I thought it was just a normal lunar item like any of the others. Except one that lead to a secret ending. But the point of what im trying to say is that its more fun (for me) to be able to find them and get the chance to be the heretic. For new players that never knew about it, would get a nice treat of seeing it happen.

Originally posted by Scaily:

the bird is fun but not realy to busted sure you have a heal but you also have hp drain sure you have a Aoe nuke but for max effect you need to charge ect ect . i can see where op is coming from but the heretic was a neat side thing for the start but i do agree after you see it big reveal and fully compleat a run with the bird you should have it as a unlockable option.

Yeah, I have no issue with the surprise of the Heretic being an unlockable for picking up certain lunar items, but after the surprise is over I think that an option in the survivor menu should be added so that surprise doesn't end up turning into a mundane chore in future runs.

[MrFlaptastic]

I want her to be selectable just because I want skins for her