Void Jalier's ranged insta-kill

[Aesthetica Purple]

I just lost a multi-hour Simulacrum run when I got one-shot by a Void-Jailer who shot out one of those void insta-kill orbs, except as a projectile.

Now, I'm not here to complain about the Void enemy insta-kills. I actually quite like them. Since the Void enemies tend to be late game anyway, it just adds another thing to keep track of, to make sure the player never feels TOO OP, and to keep the game interesting, even late-game. But...

Am I crazy to say what happened to me felt a little unfair? Like, it was specifically the Simulacrum gamemode, where most of the traversable area is covered in a blanket of pain, despite never having encountered it, I was able to figure that the attack was an insta-kill and that I should avoid it, and I was already surrounded by instakills because of all of the dying void enemies around me. I'm not sure what I could've done.

[The Face]

It was fun on reavers since it's a panic mechanic at best. Weaponizing it is a bit much.

There was a reason the old death void was so loud lol.

A void reaver death jail has killed me once and even then it was so busy I just kinda went . . . "man . . ." and that was it. Keep the death portals like the reavers. Meh on the weaponizing it though

[Nelly]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Spiked Wall Man:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Chaoz:

Dude if Reavers gave you trouble, I am genuinely sorry, but get good. Reaver explosions are literally stationary and the enemy itself sticks out among the enemies, they are one of the least difficult enemies in the game.

While I guess I am as amused by the "git gud" meme as the next person, my point is that a mechanic that instantly ends the run irrespective of past performance is not a great mechanic for a roguelite. Void Reavers are mostly harmless compared to the other enemies mentioned, but in groups they can still be deadly since their bombs actually trap you in place. So if you are fighting a group of enemies containing Void Reavers, you accidentally get trapped because there's a lot of activity on the screen, and then are unlucky enough to have a drone/turret kill one while you're trapped, then your run is over. The worst instance of this that I can think of is the Commencement escape where there are Reavers everywhere, but I have had a few really good runs ended in other areas by an unlucky scenario like this. So the OHKO mechanic feels cheap to me and doesn't really add anything to the strategy. The new enemies just make this mechanic even worse.

just don't stand next to the big purple crab that you know will kill you? if you are on a run in which a perfect circle of void reavers all die at the same time, you probably have at least one or 2 movement items to help you move away. the whole point of the void enemies is that you have to pay at least a little attention when you have a million items.

[The Face]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Nelly:

just don't stand next to the big purple crab that you know will kill you? if you are on a run in which a perfect circle of void reavers all die at the same time, you probably have at least one or 2 movement items to help you move away. the whole point of the void enemies is that you have to pay at least a little attention when you have a million items.

People sure like to pretend the complaint was the on death ones and not the new weaponized versions of jail

[Leviathan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av RevolverBigBosselote:

Ursprungligen skrivet av IAMCRAIG:

Wait until you see the giant crab enemies that shoot them as its default attack...

I think Hopoo went overboard with this mechanic. It's one thing if it's from an enemy that creates an instant death explosion with a distinct sound effect + multiple seconds to move away from it, but it's a whole other thing when something regularly fires them at you/releases a tracking one after death.

Wait, do the Devestators actually fire instant-kill attacks as their default attack? I know they have the giant implosion on death but I've never been instakilled by their default and the wiki doesn't say anything about it.

No.

They have the instant implosion that drops mini instadeath balls around but besides that... no.

[Aesthetica Purple]

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Face:

People sure like to pretend the complaint was the on death ones and not the new weaponized versions of jail

Agreed. I had though I had been specific enough about that in my initial post, but I guess the convo got derailed.

[The Gaza Strip Club]

Void enemies having void items is the real challenge. Any one could root you in place with tentabauble. The void modifier simulacrum events are horrific no matter how strong you get. The dreaded combo is tentabauble + the succ + void explosions. When doing simulacrum, try to stack enough topaz brooches that you can stay outside and away from the mess. If you get this modifier early on... godspeed.

[Nelly]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Dainty Lady:

Ursprungligen skrivet av The Face:

People sure like to pretend the complaint was the on death ones and not the new weaponized versions of jail

Agreed. I had though I had been specific enough about that in my initial post, but I guess the convo got derailed.

what i don't think you realize is that those ARE on death. They don't just shoot void orbs as a normal attack. it does look like they are still alive when they shoot it though.

[Vayde Knyght]

Ursprungligen skrivet av IAMCRAIG:

Okay, so on a 2 hour run where you were clearly obliterating everything, you found you had no problem avoiding things. I wonder why.

It is true that on that particular run I was obliterating everything, but the means and results of the obliteration were a large amount of screen clutter and noise obfuscation.
My point was that even in the worst conditions for noticing them, they are quite noticeable.

In runs where less is happening, it's even easier to see and hear them.

Ursprungligen skrivet av IAMCRAIG:

Anyways, the problem is that it's not just more area denial, it's area denial that will follow and instantly kill you, giving you one more thing to try to keep tabs on with everything else going on. That and it doesn't help that the enemy that does that can yank you towards it and root you in place, giving you a small window to get away.

(emphasis mine)
Except that the enemy that does that can't yank you towards it while it's dead, and the implosion "attack" only happens when it dies, as it is a direct result of the creature's death.

[Pumpkinreaper]

Yeah, later I found out that those big void crab things *don't* shoot instant death attacks (I only assumed they did because one instantly murdered me in a run, forgetting that there's a special death message when they do so).

Either way though, unless you can sneak into a purple portal around stage 4, you're going to run into an incredible amount of instant death implosions if you try to do the void levels.

@Vayde: Except if you're killing them very quickly, that means they aren't getting a chance to get close to you or yank you over and root you.

[Vayde Knyght]

Ursprungligen skrivet av IAMCRAIG:

@Vayde: Except if you're killing them very quickly, that means they aren't getting a chance to get close to you or yank you over and root you.

Except they spawn right next to you a lot.



EDIT: In any case, I'm sorry to have ruffled your feathers. Just trying to do what I appreciate others doing and pointing out a few particulars which are helpful to realize.

Consider me and all my points quite refuted, I suppose.

[Cyber Kitten]

I mean, this is the kinda stuff that you die to once and never again, or if you make mistake (i know i do a lot). The insta kill explosions are SUPER telegraphed.

They only happen when you kill them, then they shoot out a giant ball that gets bigger over time, it makes a really loud noise, and it makes your screen black and white when you are near it. You got all all you need right there. You know when it happens, how fast it is, and where it is.

Even for an insta kill, it seems super fair. I haven't gotten killed by one since, well.. i cannot even remember. Its just part of the learning curve. It may seem unfair, but so is getting hit by an overloading brass contraption or running into a malachite spike. They all feel awful.

I hope you don't lose your confidence