The current state of MUL-T is insanely broken

[Stret]

I just beat eclipse 1-8 as mult without failing, other than once to fall damage in stage 1 and another when i got too greedy in void fields versus crowbar + band enemies in void fields.

MUL-T is absolutely ridiculous with power mode. For starters his defense is broken : having 200+60 health, 12 base armor and 112 armor with power mode, or 212 with transport mode, is insane and lets you pretty much freely tank mithrix's attacks, within reason. I literally didn't care about the eclipse 8 modifier because everything did so little damage i wouldn't get Curse stacks. 1012armor is equal to having a bit over 2x (+112%) effective health and effective healing, and 200 armor is 3x health, if you have infusions / transcendence, bustling fungus or whatever early on you can basically AFK for most of void fields.

MUL-Ts damage output is currently massive, double nailgun dishes out 1680% a second and is extremely strong with bleed. It's very strong with any on hit item pretty much, but bleed moreso. His procs are huge. Commando for comparison fires 6.66 times a second with 1 proc coefficient each. Each nailgun fires 12 times a second with 0.6 proc coefficient each, which equals 7.2 pp/s per nailgun, aka 14.4 with two nailguns. Thats nearly twice as many procs as commando has, with also nearly three times the DPS. Let's not even get started on the saw : The saw hits 10 times a second with a proc coefficient of 1. This results in a pretty insanely consistent character, even in runs where you imagine yourself with bad rng, you're probably going to melt bosses anyway. Specially because they're big so your nailgun innacuracy stops mattering.

He gathers money the fastest out of any character in the game. For starters he gets the most gold out of Shrines of Blood (as he has the highest health), but he is also the most benefitted character by Brittle Crown, provided he is running either nailgun or saw. Brittle crowns will generate so much gold thanks to your high procs that you will often full clear the whole stage faster than other characters, specially stage 4 and 5. And he has little risk of losing any of it as he has such huge health that it's hard to lose a lot of %.

Transport Mode's existence is fine, but i will bring up the fact it's about 1900% damage when bumping into a big target with default movespeed, and it just scales higher with movespeed. Crowbars, bands and focus crystals make transport mode a really powerful single target tool if you happen to come across them.

Also nailguns can fly with high attack speed i guess.

Thanks for taking your sweet time to listen to my post about reasons why Power Mode entirely ruined this character's balance after it was already strong

[Mibber22 ✞👑]

As intended

[きょすけ]

I will never understand people arguing about "broken" characters in a non competitive game, but without command artifact you can't really build nor stack items so easily.

[Stret]

きょすけ eredeti hozzászólása:

I will never understand people arguing about "broken" characters in a non competitive game, but without command artifact you can't really build nor stack items so easily.

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

[Clyan]

it's not a competitive game, and even tho mul-T is very strong, i find him quite boring to play. eventually you will play whatever playstyle you enjoy the most and not what is most broken. i gain nothing from playing a broken hero in a non-competitive game except a quicker build up towards god mode which imo is meaningless in this game. i have achievemed that with every single hero and at some point no matter what you do your run will become too easy to enjoy.

[Ninja Zyborg]

"oOh [insert character] is OP"
who cares? the game is not competitive. The real issue is underpowered characters.

[Fox]

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

きょすけ eredeti hozzászólása:

I will never understand people arguing about "broken" characters in a non competitive game, but without command artifact you can't really build nor stack items so easily.

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

What do you have to say about arguing how "broken" characters are in a non competitive, singleplayer game? You didn't answer that first point so I'm curious.

[Stret]

Rail eredeti hozzászólása:

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

What do you have to say about arguing how "broken" characters are in a non competitive, singleplayer game? You didn't answer that first point so I'm curious.

powercreep has ruined these kinds of coop games in the past you know?

Either way i didn't even make this post asking for a nerf or whatever. If so i'd post it in the feedback subforum. I literally just made a post about how OP it is

[きょすけ]

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

Not many people use multi T (I'm one of those), but multi T requires more finesse to play than other characters, many new players may consider it the weakest of the bunch due to the rough start especially on monsoon.
I don't get your point on huntress, because I see many players attracted by her (while I'm mostly into acrid, engineer, loader or captain).

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

powercreep has ruined these kinds of coop games in the past you know?

Only to the minority who argued about game balance and whatnot in my eyes (I'm not accusing you of doing such), if anything I saw games in which the majority of the characters were so underwhelming that the one who sucked less than the rest was literally the most character used by the community, but those games had fatal flaws at their core.

[Stret]

きょすけ eredeti hozzászólása:

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

Not many people use multi T (I'm one of those), but multi T requires more finesse to play than other characters, many new players may consider it the weakest of the bunch due to the rough start especially on monsoon.
I don't get your point on huntress, because I see many players attracted by her (while I'm mostly into acrid, engineer, loader or captain).

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

powercreep has ruined these kinds of coop games in the past you know?

Only to the minority who argued about game balance and whatnot in my eyes (I'm not accusing you of doing such), if anything I saw games in which the majority of the characters were so underwhelming that the one who sucked less than the rest was literally the most character used by the community, but those games had fatal flaws at their core.

Mult? Requiring finesse? You can literally AFK in front of enemies and they will take ages to kill you in monsoon while sitting in powermode. He's one of the easiest characters to play by far, you can literally afk half the cells in void fields if you grab a Transcendence early on for the max health. His HP is insane, he does not require any more finesse to play than other characters, other than perhaps for some complicated tech (Like making Transport Mode retain nailgun blast momentum for insane speeds)

His start is not rough at all. Enemies barely tickle him, and he melts the stage 1 boss fast as hell. In fact he can just hold m1 at the vagrant provided he's like level 3 or and it will die before it detonates.

>I don't get your point on huntress
Huntress is definitely an underpowered character. She has the worst base DPS out of anyone in the game by quite a big margin, in fact her entire base kit is outdpsed by commando holding m1 at close range. She also has issues with damage items and procs, because some of her proc coefficients are lower for no reason (Ex glaive has 0.8 proc coefficient, Flurry has 0.7 proc coefficient despite dealing less damage with crits than many character's primries without crits and having like half the base damage output of Strafe, etc). Not to mention her health is tiny, which gives her a poor side to her defense. Yes, it's supposed to be low because her theme is glass cannon, but she is literally all glass, no cannon.

[きょすけ]

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

Mult? Requiring finesse? You can literally AFK in front of enemies and they will take ages to kill you in monsoon while sitting in powermode. He's one of the easiest characters to play by far, you can literally afk half the cells in void fields if you grab a Transcendence early on for the max health. His HP is insane, he does not require any more finesse to play than other characters, other than perhaps for some complicated tech (Like making Transport Mode retain nailgun blast momentum for insane speeds)

His start is not rough at all. Enemies barely tickle him, and he melts the stage 1 boss fast as hell. In fact he can just hold m1 at the vagrant provided he's like level 3 or and it will die before it detonates.

Again, you need to get used with it, and not anyone enjoys using it; as for transcendence you have to be good at using it, or you'll die like a dummy, which requires getting used to the game, but most importantly, you need to be LUCKY on finding it, without even mentioning that on common runs (I hope you aren't including artifact of command into the equation), you would have to spend a bunch of lunar coins in hope of finding it.

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

>I don't get your point on huntress
Huntress is definitely an underpowered character. She has the worst base DPS out of anyone in the game by quite a big margin, in fact her entire base kit is outdpsed by commando holding m1 at close range. She also has issues with damage items and procs, because some of her proc coefficients are lower for no reason (Ex glaive has 0.8 proc coefficient, Flurry has 0.7 proc coefficient despite dealing less damage with crits than many character's primries without crits and having like half the base damage output of Strafe, etc). Not to mention her health is tiny, which gives her a poor side to her defense. Yes, it's supposed to be low because her theme is glass cannon, but she is literally all glass, no cannon.

I never said that she isn't underpowered, what I meant is that, no matter a character's strong and weak points, anyone uses whatever they like more, hence why I said that huntress is popular among players despite her being "weaker" than the rest of the cast.

Imho your problem is that you are being too much focused on stats on a game governed first and foremost by rng, and then by player's experience.

[Stret]

きょすけ eredeti hozzászólása:

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

Mult? Requiring finesse? You can literally AFK in front of enemies and they will take ages to kill you in monsoon while sitting in powermode. He's one of the easiest characters to play by far, you can literally afk half the cells in void fields if you grab a Transcendence early on for the max health. His HP is insane, he does not require any more finesse to play than other characters, other than perhaps for some complicated tech (Like making Transport Mode retain nailgun blast momentum for insane speeds)

His start is not rough at all. Enemies barely tickle him, and he melts the stage 1 boss fast as hell. In fact he can just hold m1 at the vagrant provided he's like level 3 or and it will die before it detonates.

Again, you need to get used with it, and not anyone enjoys using it; as for transcendence you have to be good at using it, or you'll die like a dummy, which requires getting used to the game, but most importantly, you need to be LUCKY on finding it, without even mentioning that on common runs (I hope you aren't including artifact of command into the equation), you would have to spend a bunch of lunar coins in hope of finding it.

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

>I don't get your point on huntress
Huntress is definitely an underpowered character. She has the worst base DPS out of anyone in the game by quite a big margin, in fact her entire base kit is outdpsed by commando holding m1 at close range. She also has issues with damage items and procs, because some of her proc coefficients are lower for no reason (Ex glaive has 0.8 proc coefficient, Flurry has 0.7 proc coefficient despite dealing less damage with crits than many character's primries without crits and having like half the base damage output of Strafe, etc). Not to mention her health is tiny, which gives her a poor side to her defense. Yes, it's supposed to be low because her theme is glass cannon, but she is literally all glass, no cannon.

I never said that she isn't underpowered, what I meant is that, no matter a character's strong and weak points, anyone uses whatever they like more, hence why I said that huntress is popular among players despite her being "weaker" than the rest of the cast.

Imho your problem is that you are being too much focused on stats on a game governed first and foremost by rng, and then by player's experience.

yes people use whatever they like more, i myself love huntress and i'm doing eclipse 8 with her right now. I just said shes underpowered

No i'm not focused on stats more than the game, i literally just make a thread just saying my experience with mul-t and you guys came in

a game governed first and foremost by rng
Not true. RNG is not a big deal once you're actually good at the game and doing semi consistent 6mm runs is perfectly doable, some characters are just more consistent than others. Most complaints about RNG are generally new players who think too much about top tier items like crit glasses and don't see the worth in other items

[きょすけ]

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

Not true. RNG is not a big deal once you're actually good at the game and doing semi consistent 6mm runs is perfectly doable, some characters are just more consistent than others. Most complaints about RNG are generally new players who think too much about top tier items like crit glasses and don't see the worth in other items

I literally never cared for glasses, but I like to see the strong and weak points on all items, and I see your point.

RNG still plays a role though, I like to main acrid most of the times, but there are simply some unlucky runs in which I get crappy items, recycle may help, but you'd still need to be lucky finding the right 3d printers which have a better synergy than the other, aka no matter how good you are, RNG can provide as both a blessing or a curse.

I do still think though that you are putting more thought on multi T than what it deserves to have, to be honest: I mean, if you'd play EDF5 you could argue that either air raider or wing diver have some "broken OP" weapons, when in the truth it all boils down in how good you are at using them.

[Stret]

きょすけ eredeti hozzászólása:

.

To be fair, unless perhaps you play Poison acrid as it's a bit underpowered, Acrid doesn't really need much items to win. Acrid's overall kit in fact does not benefit from items very well so it makes sense you could experience bad rng runs (DoTs are not affected by procs and she has neither high damage or high attack speed) but your DoTs will make sure your damage is nice even without items and allow you to do just fine, thats why purity meleecrid is so good

I never cared for glasses

Why exactly? They're really good. 10% damage to everything per stack + access to an attack speed green, a healing green, and a bleed inflicting yellow.

I like to see the strong points in all items

Same, and honestly as i got more used to the game, i think pretty much every item but Bison Steak is highly useful, nice and worth keeping. There are only a few items i'd call kinda bad like Lepton Daisy and Titanic Knurl but even then they're situationally useful. That's why i dont feel like this game is really RNG based after you get used to the items and have a decent bunch of lunar coins : It's almost impossible for you to go through a run without finding at the very least good enough damage.

[きょすけ]

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

To be fair, unless perhaps you play Poison acrid as it's a bit underpowered, Acrid doesn't really need much items to win. Acrid's overall kit in fact does not benefit from items very well so it makes sense you could experience bad rng runs (DoTs are not affected by procs and she has neither high damage or high attack speed) but your DoTs will make sure your damage is nice even without items and allow you to do just fine, thats why purity meleecrid is so good

I do indeed play poison acrid, as it's the better of the two long time runs wise, and I do admit that depisde liking him, I'm far from being good at playing that character, at least I can be overwhelmed very easily on monsoon, especially from wisps.

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

Why exactly? They're really good. 10% damage to everything per stack + access to an attack speed green, a healing green, and a bleed inflicting yellow.

Apologies about that, for whatever reasons I got mixed it with shaped glass, as soon as I read the crit effect I figured my mistake.

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

I like to see the strong points in all items

Same, and honestly as i got more used to the game, i think pretty much every item but Bison Steak is highly useful, nice and worth keeping. There are only a few items i'd call kinda bad like Lepton Daisy and Titanic Knurl but even then they're situationally useful. That's why i dont feel like this game is really RNG based after you get used to the items and have a decent bunch of lunar coins : It's almost impossible for you to go through a run without finding at the very least good enough damage. [/quote]

The thing I like is how many items become either extremely good or utter crap depending on which character you are playing with (for example backup magazine is awesome for acrid especially early on so that I can shoot down flying enemies, but are kinda useless with let's say, captain).

Honestly though, unless you are looping I feel pretty situational being able to "build" the strong points of your character, such as for multi T (at least I wasn't able to "properly" build them without looping).

[Flori281]

hmmm yes because the game isn't competitive balance doesn't matter

you people think devs just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ pull a game outta their ass and don't perform more than like 2 tests to ensure it doesn't fall apart. No one collects data or plays the game beyond bug testing, and they have no clue nor care what kind of experience the game will give to the player

what an insanely underdeveloped view of game design

Clyan eredeti hozzászólása:

it's not a competitive game, and even tho mul-T is very strong, i find him quite boring to play. eventually you will play whatever playstyle you enjoy the most and not what is most broken. i gain nothing from playing a broken hero in a non-competitive game except a quicker build up towards god mode which imo is meaningless in this game. i have achievemed that with every single hero and at some point no matter what you do your run will become too easy to enjoy.

Ninja Zyborg eredeti hozzászólása:

"oOh [insert character] is OP"
who cares? the game is not competitive. The real issue is underpowered characters.

Rail eredeti hozzászólása:

Stret eredeti hozzászólása:

yes you can? In fact mult is one of the most consistent characters in the game. Like one or two tri tips is already a massive damage boost against enemies like AWU and your proc chains are so easy to get going.

The vast majority of items in ROR2 are good and useful, and you can easily get decent healing, specially with Corpsebloom and Transcendence being a thing. There was not a single eclipse run where i felt like i had a bad build in any of these, with one exception, where i ended up finding an armor piercing rounds and tri tip printer so...

RNG is only a problem if you play a bad character with low damage, like Huntress and her pitiful base DPS that is far below literally anyone else in the game

What do you have to say about arguing how "broken" characters are in a non competitive, singleplayer game? You didn't answer that first point so I'm curious.

why do the devs do balance at all, i wonder? why did we even get skills 2.0 or anniversary update balance changes? the game works so why even look at it further aside from bug fixes