We need to talk about the balance of health and damage

[Kavrick]

So as someone with 200 hours in this game, and played it since release, i've seen the difference balances of when fire DOT would kill you from full health and how the balanced has changed based on the item pool becoming diluted.

In the current state of the game, damage items have far, far more value than tank items, most tank items in the game either dont scale, or dont give a bigger benefit than damage items. With the way the game works and the difficult scales, damage will not only make the gameplay smoother but will also mean you can progress faster without the difficulty ticking by too fast. With this itself, damage items are far more important than tank items, now stack this on top of comparing damage items to tank items. Bison steak gives you 25hp, twenty five health. This is rediculous, compared to items like crit glasses, soldier syringe or any movement item.

Speaking of movement items, movement items are infinitely more useful than tank items, being able to completely dodge attacks is far, far better than tank items that dont scale and pale in comparison to amount of damage enemies do, yeah i'm sure that 15 less damage you take from reactive plate is going to help you when enemies have attacks that do more damage than your max health, the item pool becoming diluted to all hell isn't helping this issue. There is nothing worse than getting nothing but useless items like warbanner, bison steak, fireworks and reactive plate and having such low damage that the difficulty outscales you because you cant kill enemies fast enough.

Either remove these god awful items from the game, add an option to control what items can spawn in gameplay (seeing as otherwise, getting certain achievements can actually make the game harder by adding a useless item into the item pool) or buff them to make it so being tanky and withstanding enemy attacks is actually a viable way to play. I dont want to feel like i have to use command to have a consistent experience.


P.S Just add itemstatmod to the game, the fact we need to use a mod to actually know what items do is silly.

[Raptor]

The real problem is that enemies are only dangerous because they can essentially one shot you hence the OSP in the game. It kinda sucks that they don't really present any danger past that. I think it would be much more engaging if you actually had to know enemy move sets in order to fight them.

[Kavrick]

Originally posted by Raptor:

The real problem is that enemies are only dangerous because they can essentially one shot you hence the OSP in the game. It kinda sucks that they don't really present any danger past that. I think it would be much more engaging if you actually had to know enemy move sets in order to fight them.

Agreed, 95% of the time, going fast and circling around groups of enemies and hitting them is the optimal way to play.

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Kavrick:

Originally posted by Raptor:

The real problem is that enemies are only dangerous because they can essentially one shot you hence the OSP in the game. It kinda sucks that they don't really present any danger past that. I think it would be much more engaging if you actually had to know enemy move sets in order to fight them.

Agreed, 95% of the time, going fast and circling around groups of enemies and hitting them is the optimal way to play.

Been complaining about this sort of thing from nigh the beginning. Enemy attack patterns are bland as fork in this game.

in RoR you had enemies that encouraged kiting in specific directions, enemies who encouraged standing in safe spots, enemies who encouraged jumping at the right time, enemies who encouraged shooting at the right time, and various bulks of enemies that you could or couldn't abuse the stun of.

in RoR 2 you have enemies who encourage sprinting and bunny hopping.

[Kavrick]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Originally posted by Kavrick:

Agreed, 95% of the time, going fast and circling around groups of enemies and hitting them is the optimal way to play.

Been complaining about this sort of thing from nigh the beginning. Enemy attack patterns are bland as fork in this game.

in RoR you had enemies that encouraged kiting in specific directions, enemies who encouraged standing in safe spots, enemies who encouraged jumping at the right time, enemies who encouraged shooting at the right time, and various bulks of enemies that you could or couldn't abuse the stun of.

in RoR 2 you have enemies who encourage sprinting and bunny hopping.

In pretty much every aspect, RoR 1 is far better design-wise. Character kits are more enjoyable to use, items are more balanced, and the levels feel more unique, I kinda feel like the transition to 3d was a pretty big mistake.

[76561198811524324]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Originally posted by Kavrick:

Agreed, 95% of the time, going fast and circling around groups of enemies and hitting them is the optimal way to play.

Been complaining about this sort of thing from nigh the beginning. Enemy attack patterns are bland as fork in this game.

in RoR you had enemies that encouraged kiting in specific directions, enemies who encouraged standing in safe spots, enemies who encouraged jumping at the right time, enemies who encouraged shooting at the right time, and various bulks of enemies that you could or couldn't abuse the stun of.

in RoR 2 you have enemies who encourage sprinting and bunny hopping.

You haven't played risk of rain 1 much at all have you? lol

[shrimping]

there is a reason tank items aren't good, they aren't really supposed to be. you have cover, a ton of mobility options, lots and lots of healing items, and every attack is able to avoided if you know how the enemy works.

have you ever tried going for a mainly tank only build in risk of rain 2? it's nearly impossible to die unless you are going out of your way to get yourself killed

[GrimtyGray]

Originally posted by kwafi:

there is a reason tank items aren't good, they aren't really supposed to be. you have cover, a ton of mobility options, lots and lots of healing items, and every attack is able to avoided if you know how the enemy works.

have you ever tried going for a mainly tank only build in risk of rain 2? it's nearly impossible to die unless you are going out of your way to get yourself killed

You can't "go for a build" unless you're using command. Only tri kiosks and printers let you even slightly "go for a build."

[shrimping]

Originally posted by GrimtyGray:

Originally posted by kwafi:

there is a reason tank items aren't good, they aren't really supposed to be. you have cover, a ton of mobility options, lots and lots of healing items, and every attack is able to avoided if you know how the enemy works.

have you ever tried going for a mainly tank only build in risk of rain 2? it's nearly impossible to die unless you are going out of your way to get yourself killed

You can't "go for a build" unless you're using command. Only tri kiosks and printers let you even slightly "go for a build."

do you know how common printers, scrappers, and cauldrons are? it's very easy to get a specific build you want on the current patch.

[76561198811524324]

Originally posted by GrimtyGray:

Originally posted by kwafi:

there is a reason tank items aren't good, they aren't really supposed to be. you have cover, a ton of mobility options, lots and lots of healing items, and every attack is able to avoided if you know how the enemy works.

have you ever tried going for a mainly tank only build in risk of rain 2? it's nearly impossible to die unless you are going out of your way to get yourself killed

You can't "go for a build" unless you're using command. Only tri kiosks and printers let you even slightly "go for a build."

"You can't go for a build in risk of rain 2" *Proceeds to list ways to make a build in risk of rain 2*

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by ninetails:

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Been complaining about this sort of thing from nigh the beginning. Enemy attack patterns are bland as fork in this game.

in RoR you had enemies that encouraged kiting in specific directions, enemies who encouraged standing in safe spots, enemies who encouraged jumping at the right time, enemies who encouraged shooting at the right time, and various bulks of enemies that you could or couldn't abuse the stun of.

in RoR 2 you have enemies who encourage sprinting and bunny hopping.

You haven't played risk of rain 1 much at all have you? lol

You can say that, but can you really deny what I'm saying?
Does it even matter if I'm wrong about RoR? RoR 2's enemy attack patterns aren't that grand regardless.

[76561198811524324]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

Originally posted by ninetails:

You haven't played risk of rain 1 much at all have you? lol

You can say that, but can you really deny what I'm saying?
Does it even matter if I'm wrong about RoR? RoR 2's enemy attack patterns aren't that grand regardless.

Play both games and you will realize that dodging enemies is nearly identical. Attacks aren't supposed to be complicated this is a horde shooter. Saying the first game had better attack patterns in nonsensical.

[Kavrick]

Originally posted by ninetails:

Originally posted by GrimtyGray:

You can't "go for a build" unless you're using command. Only tri kiosks and printers let you even slightly "go for a build."

"You can't go for a build in risk of rain 2" *Proceeds to list ways to make a build in risk of rain 2*

I mean my main point of what i said was that i didn't like having to use command for a consistent playthrough, also printers are common, but getting the specific printer you want are not so common.

[76561198811524324]

Originally posted by Kavrick:

Originally posted by ninetails:

"You can't go for a build in risk of rain 2" *Proceeds to list ways to make a build in risk of rain 2*

I mean my main point of what i said was that i didn't like having to use command for a consistent playthrough, also printers are common, but getting the specific printer you want are not so common.

You're main point was saying that health items are bad when in reality they aren't. You don't need command to see that.

[Kavrick]

Originally posted by ninetails:

Originally posted by Kavrick:

I mean my main point of what i said was that i didn't like having to use command for a consistent playthrough, also printers are common, but getting the specific printer you want are not so common.

You're main point was saying that health items are bad when in reality they aren't. You don't need command to see that.

You being serious? I've stacked "tank" items with command and still been one shot by certain effects, also you ignored the part about how they indirectly make the game harder because it'll take longer to progress while the difficulty gets harder.

[76561198811524324]

Originally posted by Kavrick:

Originally posted by ninetails:

You're main point was saying that health items are bad when in reality they aren't. You don't need command to see that.

You being serious? I've stacked "tank" items with command and still been one shot by certain effects, also you ignored the part about how they indirectly make the game harder because it'll take longer to progress while the difficulty gets harder.

If you're stacking any health items whatsoever you won't be getting oneshot. Are you getting shield gens? Infusion? Armor? Cause if you are and you're still dying, that's not the game that's you.