Give us the ability to discard unwanted items

[LizardRoxoringKing]

That feeling when...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRdLML8cVz4&list=PLAobX6oA13GFJw-0QMO0o2hdbVAEnXFsB&index=136&t=0s



Twice now I've had a run end because I got a cancer item drop at the teleporter that I refused to pick up, but the item had dropped in such a way that I couldn't progress to the next stage unless I took it. The teleporter in these situations had spawned in a location that made it so that the reward dropped in the exact center of the circle, so that it's impossible to leave the stage without taking the item. The UI defaults to "Press E to get Cancer" rather than "Press E to activate teleporter." Sometimes, shrine of the mountain can also make exiting a level safely almost impossible.

Please give us the ability to shred or drop items so that if we something up a game-breaking item by accident or by bad luck, we do not have to end the run!

This feature could be added to the TAB menu with a drop-click. Something like left-click to a recycle bin to shred a single stack, and right-click to shred an entire stack. (Optionally, the stack could be redeemed for gold or lunar coins, but, honestly, the only thing I want to redeem is the cleanliness of my inventory by purging myself of cancer-items.)

Some commenters may point out that junk items can be vendored 1) printers, or 2) at Newt's. This is bad reasoning. I will now explain why.

1) "But you can save bad items and print them later!"

Yes, but the printer selects randomly from the sum pool of all of your items. If you have several stacks of a good item, it will take those first. Therefore, if you accidentally pick up a bad item, it is very likely that you will expend many or all of your good items trying to get rid of it at a printer. This in itself is usually run-ending. Such is RNG.

The likelihood of finding a green printer is already very low. The likelihood of finding a red printer is astronomically low for any given run. Therefore, if you pick up a red item you don't want by accident, you are probably stuck with it forever.

2) "But you can spend them at Newt's!"

Same as above, with the addition that you shouldn't have to pay lunar coins to get rid of something you never intended to pick up.

Edit: I have changed the title of this thread to differentiate between an item DISCARD (destroying an unwanted item in one's inventory permanently for no gain) and an item DROP (the possibility of dropping an item so that someone else can collect it, or any manipulation of one's inventory that would allow players to game printers and shops).

[[MNI] Kisune]

Yhea i think seeing how things like happy mask can lag the game ice shards are suicide later game (or force you to stay away from an area) and wax quails can become very dangerous (just had a pretty short game where i had i think 2 maybe 3 and it did launch me up high eneught to be in a full beam from a golem (resulting in dead)
YHea its normaly not that much of a problem but if you are at an angle it nearly makes it mandatory to have the headset since you cant dodge otherwise)
Also both shreeding or droping (with a cooldown) wont allow you to go for broken builds (maybe you could make it so it is disabled in the altar) since slight adjustments to a build at the cost of minutes of scalling just dont make a difference)
and it would certainly help with things like having mushrooms drop half the map away from the engineer

[LizardRoxoringKing]

Originally posted by Cacomistle:

I think I you're overstating the problem. There's an approximate 0% chance that a single green item is the difference between life and death, and its pretty unlikely you'll be forced into several pickups in a row.

Well maybe its like .1% cause wax quail can cause you to take fall damage. But it would still be q minor factor in a loss.

That being said, I still agree. I think lunar items should not be droppable, but everything else should. On top of just making your run less stupid if you accidentally pick up too much mobility, or happiest mask lagging your game or killing you, some runs get stupid broken and it might actually be interesting to say drop a clover.

Basically removing items would just be a way for the player to remove potential glitchy combinations, and would offer no real strength gain or abuse options.

Funnily enough I would say reds are the most likely to end runs. I've had 2 lost because frost relic blew up a barrel, and while happy mask hasn't killed me several other people claim it's killed them either directly or indirectly just through lag. I'd rather not be cautious at a legendary chest making sure I really want one of what's meant to be the best items in the game.

You're right that it's not a life and death issue. I don't think I've ever died as a direct result of getting a quail. I just don't like how it affects my movement to the point where if I pick one up, I instantly lose all interest in my run. The issue is therefore between a game mentality where I'm thinking "Just one more stage..." and "Exit to Desktop." Getting an item you do not want and cannot reliably get rid of just isn't fun. It's anti-fun.

Originally posted by Boksha:

Problem with letting people drop and pick back up items is it would let you (in an annoyingly cumbersome way) control what items a 3-D printer will take, which would make it really easy to make very powerful builds.

Now, to be honest, I hate how printers work right now, so I'd rather just have an easy way to let people choose what item to sacrifice, but then say, increase the cost to two items per printed item (for white and green printers). If that was done, I don't see any reason not to let players drop items.

Shredding items... eh, I don't see the point (people really make a big deal out of Wax Quails) but I also don't see why it shouldn't be added.

A drop function would indeed allow people to game the printers, although it would take some micromanagement and the expenditure of time. I suppose I'm not in favor of a drop mechanic. A better word would be "discard."

A cool-down period between dropping would also be fine with me. Say, 1 minute, or even 3 minutes. Or once per stage. Even once per loop.

Another possibility would be to have a shred mechanic that cost gold or even lunar coins. I would actually be okay with spending 1 lunar coin to get rid of a quail from time to time.

Another option still would be to introduce a shredder chest, like the printers. Activating it could send you to a menu like the RoR1 command menu, where you could shred an item for gold.

A poetic touch would be to use the celestial portal, and have the option to obliterate quails from existence. That would put a smile on my face.

Originally posted by Rhadamante:

The ability to drop items is something we need, if not for the (good enough) reason OP mentioned, at least for multiplayer: pinging an item for your friend to pick up is good, but if they're on the other side of the map, wouldn't it be better to be able to pick up the item and later give it to them ?

I don't play multiplayer, so I'm equivocal on this issue. I can see pros and cons for having or not having a trade feature.

[Flori281]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Problem with letting people drop and pick back up items is it would let you (in an annoyingly cumbersome way) control what items a 3-D printer will take, which would make it really easy to make very powerful builds.

Now, to be honest, I hate how printers work right now, so I'd rather just have an easy way to let people choose what item to sacrifice, but then say, increase the cost to two items per printed item (for white and green printers). If that was done, I don't see any reason not to let players drop items.

Shredding items... eh, I don't see the point (people really make a big deal out of Wax Quails) but I also don't see why it shouldn't be added.

I feel like I should totally be able to pick what I print anyways without drawbacks since I'm exchanging something already. I'm fine with a dropped item being unable to get picked up by the person who dropped it, seems fair and if no one picks it up that'll be it.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Floridian281:

Originally posted by Boksha:

Problem with letting people drop and pick back up items is it would let you (in an annoyingly cumbersome way) control what items a 3-D printer will take, which would make it really easy to make very powerful builds.

Now, to be honest, I hate how printers work right now, so I'd rather just have an easy way to let people choose what item to sacrifice, but then say, increase the cost to two items per printed item (for white and green printers). If that was done, I don't see any reason not to let players drop items.

Shredding items... eh, I don't see the point (people really make a big deal out of Wax Quails) but I also don't see why it shouldn't be added.

I feel like I should totally be able to pick what I print anyways without drawbacks since I'm exchanging something already. I'm fine with a dropped item being unable to get picked up by the person who dropped it, seems fair and if no one picks it up that'll be it.

You're not giving anything up to print. You're making an equal exchange, 1 item for 1 item.

You'd have to actually give something up for it to really make sense that you get a choice. Because otherwise, its pretty obvious that there are some items better than others. Your build would basically just get ridiculously more powerful every time you see a good printer. Suddenly on a run where you find 5 chronobauble, if you find a missle printer you just get rid of all of them and perhaps a few stealth kits and start 1 shotting everything with missles. With no real drawbacks, because you're only giving up items you don't need. So now, the balance between a run where you found a missle printer and a run where you found a chronobauble printer is absolutely ridiculous.

With printers giving up random items, there's an actual risk to using them. You can print 10 missles, but you might give up all your healing and hopoo feathers, or giving up bands so missles have nothing to scale off of. And that will leave you temporarily in a worse spot. Printing broken items will eventually make you broken, but at the very least it can leave you with temporary gaps in power.

So right now printers are stuck risking now for a lot of eventual power, or filling gaps in current builds with a few printed items. Printers with choice just allow you to make your build whatever you want.

We already have clover for breaking the game with a single rng pickup. We don't need good printers to consistently do this as well.

[ChowieChowDown]

They have actually recently added what seems like a higher drop rate for red items and moon coins

so in my eyes problem fixed. And i really don't see any of the items as not useful. Maybe it can be argued stagnant number items like the shield for instance. Brooch good 15 over charge health
shield 15 shield per stack...like what.

But yes i think every item has its use and i did think that moon coins were way to rare and me and my girlfriend decided to hop on and we got about 2-3 each run and we didn't really even loop tbh

[MerryMarauder]

just no man no no nono kinda defeats the purpose of the game. Play destiny and go for builds or whatever but this is luck/rng based and dropping items would defeat the point.

[Percher]

Originally posted by LizardRoxoringKing:

You don't have the imagination to think of any reason not to pick up any item in the game? Aside from the reasons I gave to avoid quails and whips, lots of people avoid items for their deleterious effects: headstompers (negates artificer passive), frost relic (sets off urns and bombs, affects camera), happiest mask (ghosts bug out and can kill you, RIP FPS), wake of vultures (lightning elite buff bug), etc...

If you're good at the game and don't want to trivialize the content, you might even decide NOT to take an item that would make the game too easy. People do this all the time when they decide against taking an early glass or gesture, for example.

This above all: some people just don't like certain items! Most of the time, we can avoid them, but sometimes, by misfortune or misstep, and despite all our best efforts, undesirable items sometimes find their way into our inventory. It would be great if we had a reliable way to take them out...

I can see why you'd wanna avoid getting too many Quails and Whips, and the Stompers on Artificer, but I've personally never had trouble with the rest. Even Happiest Mask, because my runs always end before I can get to the point where it would kill me.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

I can see why you'd wanna avoid getting too many Quails and Whips, and the Stompers on Artificer, but I've personally never had trouble with the rest. Even Happiest Mask, because my runs always end before I can get to the point where it would kill me.

Red items never appear on teleporters though.

I don't know what the hell OP is talking about. In like 1/1000000000 chance you have this happen, you can't just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TRY to make the items work? I also find it EXTREMELY unbelievable that OP has had so many runs where this happens that he needs to complain on the forums.

All in all a really stupid thread that has no reason to exist.

I'm thinking back and only teleporters where this could happen is like the one in rallypoint delta inside of the containers or the new ones in abyssal depths.

Either way I think that dropping items would be good for multiplayer too

[LizardRoxoringKing]

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

I can see why you'd wanna avoid getting too many Quails and Whips, and the Stompers on Artificer, but I've personally never had trouble with the rest. Even Happiest Mask, because my runs always end before I can get to the point where it would kill me.

Red items never appear on teleporters though.

I don't know what the hell OP is talking about. In like 1/1000000000 chance you have this happen, you can't just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ TRY to make the items work? I also find it EXTREMELY unbelievable that OP has had so many runs where this happens that he needs to complain on the forums.

All in all a really stupid thread that has no reason to exist.

I'm thinking back and only teleporters where this could happen is like the one in rallypoint delta inside of the containers or the new ones in abyssal depths.

Two things have to happen:

1) Teleporter spawns in a location that would make it so that killing the boss results in an item dropping in perfect overlap with the exit mechanism. I do not know what the exact odds are of this happening, but it's not infrequent. It happens every few runs or so. I played one run yesterday evening and it happened on the Abyssal Depths. The teleporter had spawned near a wall with an overhang. Fortunately, the item was will o' the wisp!

2) The boss item is something that, under literally any other situation in which the player has free choice, is not an item that the player would ever take. In my case, quail or whip, but the items could vary depending on the player (e.g., queen's gland).

"You could at least try to make it work" misses the point spectacularly. See earlier replies for clarification.

I've had the combination of both things happen at least twice. Believe me or don't. I don't care. Calculating the odds also misses the point. This is something that can and does happen.

I am not complaining -- that's a sly mischaracterization on your part. I love this game, as my hours on record demonstrates. I think the game could be better, so I started this thread to point out something that happens from time to time that isn't fun and to offer a few suggestions for how the developers might address it.

If this thread is "really stupid" and "has no reason to exist," it follows logically that that same criticism can only apply equally or greater to your reply to it.

[Zooblesnoops]

Originally posted by LizardRoxoringKing:

Originally posted by derpykat5:

so what is this "cancer item" that keeps ruining your runs by being picked up somehow? I can't think of any green (teleporters only drop greens and boss items) that has any sort of detriment of any kind, or any green I wouldn't want to stack the heck out of (other than chronobauble).

Quail and whip. I avoid quail because it detracts from your ability to nuance and control your jump. Mobility equals life; quail equals cancer. At later stages in the game, even one quail will launch you into the stratosphere if you jump against an angled surface.

I avoid red whip because the contextual speed increase causes velocitization. I feel like I am moving in molasses when I'm in combat and it turns off. I hated it in RoR1, and I hate it in this game.

If there were a shred function, I could take quail and red whip before looping when they're maybe useful, and then shred them later to have a more enjoyable late game when they mess with my movement. Another reason to add such a mechanic.

Originally posted by Boboscus:

The probability of an item from boss battle to spawn right where you need to be to leave is astronomically low, why should the main game mechanic be changed then? It's a game about RNG, you're not gonna have a good run every game, but adapting to different builds is what one should try in order to get better, if you're always building the same build, are you really playing the game as it's intended? Reason why so many were pissed off when they nerfed the sticky bomb was because they are uncapable of making other builds work, thus they have to exploit one "broken" item to "win".

The probability may be low, but it's something that negatively impacts gameplay and that isn't player dependent or skill-based. If the run ends because I didn't play well, I accept that. If I don't get the red item I want from the chest on stage 4, so it goes. But suppose there were a 0.3% chance that you would just fall over dead for zero reason. Your argument is like saying "well, there's an extremely low chance of that happening, it's all RNG -- why should they change the mechanics?" The answer is because one thing is not like the other.

As for positive reasons for why they should mod the game to include a shredding mechanic, three words: quality of life. There are many reasons why it would be useful to include this mechanic. To name but one example, people often like to do challenge runs where they only take certain items. If you accidentally pick something up that you weren't meant to, such a mechanic would allow you to salvage the run by getting rid of the offending item.

Your implication that I or people like me just need to "get good" or that we don't know how to make other builds is a tired cliche and it doesn't even address the issue. Your comment about playing a game "as intended" hinges on the false premise that there is a right way to enjoy a game. The author is dead, and all that jazz.

Originally posted by Percher:

You do realize that there's no point in avoiding items, right? They still give you an effect, which always helps, even if the effect is hot garbage. Chronobauble, for example. Yeah, I hate it, and yeah, I wish I got something else, but it's still a guaranteed on-hit effect. Might as well pick it up, aye?

You don't have the imagination to think of any reason not to pick up any item in the game? Aside from the reasons I gave to avoid quails and whips, lots of people avoid items for their deleterious effects: headstompers (negates artificer passive), frost relic (sets off urns and bombs, affects camera), happiest mask (ghosts bug out and can kill you, RIP FPS), wake of vultures (lightning elite buff bug), etc...

If you're good at the game and don't want to trivialize the content, you might even decide NOT to take an item that would make the game too easy. People do this all the time when they decide against taking an early glass or gesture, for example.

This above all: some people just don't like certain items! Most of the time, we can avoid them, but sometimes, by misfortune or misstep, and despite all our best efforts, undesirable items sometimes find their way into our inventory. It would be great if we had a reliable way to take them out...

What if there was the opposite of a printer, that took in one particular item and spewed out something random?

[LizardRoxoringKing]

Anything that would allow us to target an item in our inventory for discard (or exchange) would be welcome addition to the game.

A reverse-printer (randomizer? converter?) is a good idea. Thank you for suggesting it!

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by zooblesnoops:

Originally posted by LizardRoxoringKing:

Quail and whip. I avoid quail because it detracts from your ability to nuance and control your jump. Mobility equals life; quail equals cancer. At later stages in the game, even one quail will launch you into the stratosphere if you jump against an angled surface.

I avoid red whip because the contextual speed increase causes velocitization. I feel like I am moving in molasses when I'm in combat and it turns off. I hated it in RoR1, and I hate it in this game.

If there were a shred function, I could take quail and red whip before looping when they're maybe useful, and then shred them later to have a more enjoyable late game when they mess with my movement. Another reason to add such a mechanic.




The probability may be low, but it's something that negatively impacts gameplay and that isn't player dependent or skill-based. If the run ends because I didn't play well, I accept that. If I don't get the red item I want from the chest on stage 4, so it goes. But suppose there were a 0.3% chance that you would just fall over dead for zero reason. Your argument is like saying "well, there's an extremely low chance of that happening, it's all RNG -- why should they change the mechanics?" The answer is because one thing is not like the other.

As for positive reasons for why they should mod the game to include a shredding mechanic, three words: quality of life. There are many reasons why it would be useful to include this mechanic. To name but one example, people often like to do challenge runs where they only take certain items. If you accidentally pick something up that you weren't meant to, such a mechanic would allow you to salvage the run by getting rid of the offending item.

Your implication that I or people like me just need to "get good" or that we don't know how to make other builds is a tired cliche and it doesn't even address the issue. Your comment about playing a game "as intended" hinges on the false premise that there is a right way to enjoy a game. The author is dead, and all that jazz.



You don't have the imagination to think of any reason not to pick up any item in the game? Aside from the reasons I gave to avoid quails and whips, lots of people avoid items for their deleterious effects: headstompers (negates artificer passive), frost relic (sets off urns and bombs, affects camera), happiest mask (ghosts bug out and can kill you, RIP FPS), wake of vultures (lightning elite buff bug), etc...

If you're good at the game and don't want to trivialize the content, you might even decide NOT to take an item that would make the game too easy. People do this all the time when they decide against taking an early glass or gesture, for example.

This above all: some people just don't like certain items! Most of the time, we can avoid them, but sometimes, by misfortune or misstep, and despite all our best efforts, undesirable items sometimes find their way into our inventory. It would be great if we had a reliable way to take them out...

What if there was the opposite of a printer, that took in one particular item and spewed out something random?

That would 100% have to have a limit (since with enough time you could get whatever items you want). And the limit would have to be low, because unlike printer it holds no risk.

The thing is if you find a printer, there's a 50% chance its a below average item. Then even if its above average, there's a chance it takes one of your best items. Which means unless the printer is better than every other item you have, there is a chance of becoming weaker after printing.

Even if its a printer of a strong item, if you print say 10 missle or ukelele or whatever, you might lose something core to your build. Perhaps scythe is your only healing, or you only have 1 hopoo feather. These are items that having 1 of in your build is better than missle, but you wouldn't want to mass print them. So while you could end up with a build that does a ton of damage, you might be unable to dodge easily and take minutes to regen your hp back.

If you get the option to pick a specific item, there's almost 0 risk. Its impossible to find an item worse than say your second chronobauble. Its just the worst item. Since you're getting rid of the worst item in your build, there's now basically a guarantee you get something better.

So therefore, such an item would need a small limit in uses, and would be honestly pretty ridiculous anyways. And it couldn't shred if you say got to late game and wanted to get rid of 4 quails.

If they add something like this, the best solution imo is it takes 2 items and spits out 1, but you get to choose the 2 items.

[Ash Williams]

Good idea then I could take the blue potion equipment and just drop/shred all the debuff items it gives you. If you're getting that many quails and whips from boss drops by accident then you couldn't control your character to begin with and it doesn't matter. Quails and whips aren't throw away items anyways. Stack a few for repositioning and they'll help. All these drizzle/rainstorm warriors need to learn the game before coming to the forums to cry.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Ash Williams:

Good idea then I could take the blue potion equipment and just drop/shred all the debuff items it gives you. If you're getting that many quails and whips from boss drops by accident then you couldn't control your character to begin with and it doesn't matter. Quails and whips aren't throw away items anyways. Stack a few for repositioning and they'll help. All these drizzle/rainstorm warriors need to learn the game before coming to the forums to cry.

Are you saying that casual players don't get an opinion when it comes to this game? Even for something as simple as a quality of life addition?

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Ash Williams:

Good idea then I could take the blue potion equipment and just drop/shred all the debuff items it gives you. If you're getting that many quails and whips from boss drops by accident then you couldn't control your character to begin with and it doesn't matter. Quails and whips aren't throw away items anyways. Stack a few for repositioning and they'll help. All these drizzle/rainstorm warriors need to learn the game before coming to the forums to cry.

I mean, the debuff thing isn't an argument. They'd just code it so you can't shed the debuff item. Incredibly easy to do. They'd have to do the same thing for lunar items anyways.

As for the rest, honestly the use for it is that late game you reach this point where you don't need to control your character because everything is dying instantly and you can just fly around the map instantly. If you pick up too many speed items, you kind of just start flying around the map and its kind of boring.

I find these sorts of "git gud" comments strange. Because to me, the git gud part is that the game does not require any control over your character to be successful when you have movement items. Doing well in a run has absolutely nothing to do with why I would like to be able to control my character, its just more fun that way. And its less fun to me if I'm stopping in front of every item questioning whether I really want to pick it up.

By the time this is happening, yes it doesn't matter in terms of success. I've almost certainly infinited the run if I have that much mobility. And yes, I could avoid picking up all those items. Its really barely important at all, because runs get boring to me with all that power and I tend to obliterate. But I think it would be a nice option to be able to say shed all my healing and mobility items and see how far I can go off pure damage.

Like its strange to see a git gud comment, because this is the perfect way to add challenge back into a run you're doing too well in.

Also the bigger reason I support this change. And this is one is pretty important. Why not? That's it. I just don't see any disadvantage.