Lunar Coin Cheating: What's the longterm plan?

[Juno]

I'll admit, I've cheated many coins onto my account. I cheated in 6969, and I'm currently at 6400 or so. I assume Hopoo is okay with it as of now (If anything, it lets them get more appropriate data on lunar items) but what's the plan for when the game goes live? I personally don't think their should be a split in the community.

If I were to propose a plan, it's pretty simple. Make lunar coins spawn way more often, and remove cheating entirely. Additionally, a bit more QOL, but it'd be nice if rather than having to pick up lunar coins, it worked like the gold or ability reload, were you just run over it and it comes to you. Also, maybe all lunar coins found in Multiplayer count towards every player?

This is more of a suggestion, but I think it'd be nice if you could buy skins for heroes with lunar coins (very high price tag) just for those collectors and such.

[Sir bunny sheep]

Make lunar coins reset after each run and have the drop rates highly increased

[AuGrrr]

Messaggio originale di sirbuddyguy:

Make lunar coins reset after each run and have the drop rates highly increased

That is true but people will still cheat them in.

[B〄F Altonator]

Messaggio originale di FISHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:

Messaggio originale di sirbuddyguy:

Make lunar coins reset after each run and have the drop rates highly increased

That is true but people will still cheat them in.

Can't cheat them in if you start the stage with 0 all the time.

[Suros:/#]

Yeah, I'm with you on the cheaters. I've had people show up with cooldown/attack speed cheats, and everyone else just gets to spectate. Eventually I'll be running my own dedicated server where those sorts will be banned.

[Skypris]

Imo Lunar Coin cheating isn't the issue so much as the people who have a blatant disregard for others' enjoyment at the game because they wanna snowball Monsoon (as an example). I don't think blanket punishment should be a thing. I modded in coins during EA days when it was a pain to get them and I only play either SP or play online with just my gf and only when she wants crazy runs too (I share the lunar items). I mostly stay away from lunar anything now since the way OSP and Shaped Glass interacts has been changed.

That said, I don't like the idea of shmucks ruining others' games. I know nothing in terms of how easy or difficulty it'd be to implement but I think they could take inspiration from the anti-cheat in Halo MCC. You can edit your .ini to have all customization unlocked for MCC but if you start the game up, their anti-cheat does a pass and can detect if you changed or altered that document and therefore will let you play, but not online.

If the devs can implement something that does similar without all the extra bells and whistles that come with Halo's anti-cheat, logs the way the file is on game-close and if it's altered since the last logging, that'd be a good start. Then they could create a per-player toggle, default-on, that disables those who altered their .ini from joining the players' games, unless those players chose to disable that toggle. Those who altered the file can play with others who altered their file.

There could also be a prompt in the beginning asking if the cheating player would want to reset their file to the way it was prior to cheating in order to be able to not be "marked," which means the modifications would be undone, allowing them to play online. this would only work for new cheaters though. I've no current thoughts on solutions for existing cheaters.

[AuGrrr]

Messaggio originale di B〄F Altonator:

Messaggio originale di FISHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH:

That is true but people will still cheat them in.

Can't cheat them in if you start the stage with 0 all the time.

Yeah you can using a cheat menu. I have one where you can add lunar coins in the middle of a run.

[LemonOblivious]

Messaggio originale di BadmanNinja:

This discussion is irrelevant due to the fact that it is impossible to stop cheating in a game like this. There is no anti-cheat (nor should there be) and the players themselves are the ones that host the servers.
Whether players cheat or not is entirely their decision and not something that any of you should intervene in. They spent their money, now let them do whatever they want with what they bought.
If they are cheating in multiplayer, then kick them out of your game (if you are hosting), tell the host to kick them or leave if they are the host. Since this is not a competitive game, you receive no punishment for leaving games, therefore have no reason not to do so.

I agree with this mentality. The whole point of games in general is just to have fun. This isn't a competition based game, where "cheats" give an unfair advantage to one player over the other. If giving yourself a thousand coins is what you need to have fun, who cares? It's not hurting anyone. Even if you don't like other people using the coins, you can just leave the game or not pick up the stuff they drop.

I don't really think you can "cheat" in a general sense with games like this. The whole point is to craft a run to match what you want to do. If your definition of fun is to make a super challenging game mode, or make broken command builds, or whatever, it allows you to do that. The discord channel is great for finding people who want to play the same style as you do.

If you don't like other people dictating how you play your game, then the other side of that coin is leaving them free to play how they want as well.

[Skypris]

Messaggio originale di LemonOblivious:

Messaggio originale di BadmanNinja:

This discussion is irrelevant due to the fact that it is impossible to stop cheating in a game like this. There is no anti-cheat (nor should there be) and the players themselves are the ones that host the servers.
Whether players cheat or not is entirely their decision and not something that any of you should intervene in. They spent their money, now let them do whatever they want with what they bought.
If they are cheating in multiplayer, then kick them out of your game (if you are hosting), tell the host to kick them or leave if they are the host. Since this is not a competitive game, you receive no punishment for leaving games, therefore have no reason not to do so.

I agree with this mentality. The whole point of games in general is just to have fun. This isn't a competition based game, where "cheats" give an unfair advantage to one player over the other. If giving yourself a thousand coins is what you need to have fun, who cares? It's not hurting anyone. Even if you don't like other people using the coins, you can just leave the game or not pick up the stuff they drop.

I don't really think you can "cheat" in a general sense with games like this. The whole point is to craft a run to match what you want to do. If your definition of fun is to make a super challenging game mode, or make broken command builds, or whatever, it allows you to do that. The discord channel is great for finding people who want to play the same style as you do.

If you don't like other people dictating how you play your game, then the other side of that coin is leaving them free to play how they want as well.

It's impossible to stop cheating but it doesn't mean attempts to reduce it for the players that don't want it shouldn't be attempted. I am not for outright banning it. I have a small grudge with Borderlands for greatly hampering the WillowTree stuff. That said, any individual player should not have to worry about someone coming in and blowing everything up, denying the other player of any sort of fun. The player should be able to choose whether they want to open their lobby to those kinds of players or not.

I have a few thousand lunar coins but I am not gonna use them in a public game. That said, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to play with me and risking that I might be a griefer or someone that wants to show off to players who just don't care and want to have fun.

Some people have hard moral stances of "cheating bad" regardless of it being in a single-player or multiplayer game (which I don't agree with) so some do want to just outright ban it, which they can't.

[Senki]

Messaggio originale di Ittrix:

Messaggio originale di LemonOblivious:

I agree with this mentality. The whole point of games in general is just to have fun. This isn't a competition based game, where "cheats" give an unfair advantage to one player over the other. If giving yourself a thousand coins is what you need to have fun, who cares? It's not hurting anyone. Even if you don't like other people using the coins, you can just leave the game or not pick up the stuff they drop.

I don't really think you can "cheat" in a general sense with games like this. The whole point is to craft a run to match what you want to do. If your definition of fun is to make a super challenging game mode, or make broken command builds, or whatever, it allows you to do that. The discord channel is great for finding people who want to play the same style as you do.

If you don't like other people dictating how you play your game, then the other side of that coin is leaving them free to play how they want as well.

I have to disagree with the mentality, but regardless of if you can stop it or not you can absolutely separate it. If you make this 'cheating' an actual option it becomes no different than something like command.

I don't like command because it makes the game too easy and causes massive snowballing. Pretty much the same reason I don't like lunar coins. Do I hate anyone who plays Command? No. I don't have to play with them. There's a server browser so they can enjoy it how they want and I can enjoy it how I want. So what makes lunar coins different?
There is absolutely no server browser option for 'allow infinite lunar coins'. I don't know who is going to spam lunar coins nonstop. If free lunars were made into an artifact, players who enjoy it would go there instead of into random games. They wouldn't *need* to hack (and the swarthes of people who do cheat lunars in clearly shows there's want for this sort of thing) so they'd just go play with the artifact... just like Command. At that point, they can play how they want and I can play how I want.

You do realize that people that grinded over 200 coins can decide to spam lunar items in your run so there's literally no difference between people cheating and people having a lot from grinding them.

Cheating in lunar coins is not the issue, the whole lunar system is.

[Senki]

If they would have the time they could rework the whole thing and make lunar coins rewards from ''challenge rooms'' in the blue portal where you fight some number of elite mobs or even bosses and you get like 6 or 10 lunar coins to spend on items. And then make the number reset every run so there's no need for grind.

Stacking blue items isn't really that OP anyway, the only real OP lunar items are spinel tonic if you manage to get it to perma up time and gesture.Stacking transcendence can also be good but still not that op in most runs(the only op interaction I can think of is having enough stealth kits for the shield to regen while you're invisible).

Overall there are 2 lunar items that are good to stack and only one of them can be considered truly OP so cheating lunar coins is pretty much irrelevant.

[Senki]

Messaggio originale di Ittrix:

Stacking lunars is absolutely OP.
For most lunar items, stacking them doesn't bring any further of a downside. It's just free power at the cost of no time, which will always be OP in a game where you try to gather power before time overwhelms you.

While spinel is the most common, there's more cheeses from lunars than you can fathom my man. As an example, if you get a hardlight afterburner and stack strides of heresy you can basically stay invulnerable for entire stages. Strides does not fully stop all outgoing damage, so you could spam shaped glass too likely. Here's a more recent example of someone doing it, though they mess up a few times. https://youtu.be/OJJflgdXaSc

Here's another guy that's just absolutely hopped up on lunars doing it too. No spinel either. He also abused the lunar cauldrons to get like 8 hardlight afterburners. This was pre Command.
https://youtu.be/atnKKvtng_0

I think 10 is already too many, honestly. They need to be controlled as all get out. But having a mini boss room for one or two lunars seems a bit much.

I don't really see stackin strides of heresy as being op. It's more of a waste of time if anything because you can't attack during it. Sure you can probably win in like 10 hours by spamming it but the 0.1% of players that would enjoy that kind of gameplay don't really matter enough to make it OP.

The only items that don't stack with downsides are transcendence and gesture and I mentioned them. Any other item still has downsides, and I definitely see strides of heresy wasting more of your time than needed by stacking a downside.

[crigcrag]

Messaggio originale di Senki:

I don't really see stackin strides of heresy as being op. It's more of a waste of time if anything because you can't attack during it.

Tesla coil still activates during strides.

[Senki]

Messaggio originale di CrigCrag:

Messaggio originale di Senki:

I don't really see stackin strides of heresy as being op. It's more of a waste of time if anything because you can't attack during it.

Tesla coil still activates during strides.

Yes I am aware, still doesn't really matter it's a waste of time even with tesla until you get enough items to kill everything on screen with just a tesla and at that point you're better off without strides anyway.

Chances are you would rather have a player that actually helps you kill things in co-op than a useless flying ball. And in single player if you enjoy doing literally nothing for hours until you win then good for you.

[Cat®]

If you pick up a 100 in total over the course of your games you should just get infinite. Because they are a resource outside the game, on a per-run basis you can always have functionally infinite, which diminishes their value. You can just obliterate 10 times and get all the coins you need for the 11th run. At the same time getting them is tedious which means whether you spend them or not is not based on whether the item is good, or if you want it, or if you want the challenge; but if your personal economy permits it currently.

As it stands lunar coins only really work for the first few hours, once you're playing to loop they just gate off items you may or may not want. The randomness in finding the items in pods or the shop is all the gating they need.

[Suros:/#]

Messaggio originale di Ittrix:

Same deal for Shaped Glass. Having lower HP is honestly better for OSP, so might as well keep stacking them.

That no longer applies. Having over 10% of your health removed disables the OSP effect.