Trial of Sacrifice explioit

[NoTruePunk]

Hi, the trial of sacrifice is way too easy to farm items on. So long as you can survive the first 5-10 minutes you're basically guaranteed a god run. You can stay as long as you like and keep getting more and more powerful because time doesn't advance in the trial.

IMO this is an exploit. Not because of the mechanics behind the artifact, but because of the trial itself. Basically the trial being accessible on any run regardless of what artifacts are active means all of the benefits of the sacrifice artifact are available with none of the downsides. On every run. It's no different than if guilded coast gave endless chests. In fact it's worse because there's no luck involved in getting there, unlike guilded coast.

Time needs to advance or the chance for items to drop needs to decrease progressively with each successful item drop. Just in this one trial of course

*EDIT* It would be weird for the trial of sacrifice and the artifact of sacrifice to have different special rules, so the drop rate should decrease over time for the artifact as well, with the timer resetting on each stage. This way it's no longer possible to farm on void fields and gilded coast endlessly. Each trial should be limited to once per run as well.

[Apoth]

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

Okay, you're right, it would be weird to have the rules of the trial be slightly different than the rules of the artifact. Maybe the artifact should be nerfed. Should it be possible to farm items endlessly on guilded coast and void fields with the artifact active?

Nerf the artifact's drops to be hyperbolic over time and make each of the trials only possible to run once per game, just like void fields. Then it'll be fixed.

If you nerf the artifact drop chance you are killing it, they COULD change how the chance works right now (since its tied to exp the longer the run the more items can drop).
Now I do agree that trials should be a 1 time per run, at least for each artifact. Something like if you already unlocked it the portal to the trial doesn't work

[Spoopy]

Originally posted by CFis:

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

what do you mean by this? Your player level determines the number of chests in a stage?

No, it means that if you use Sacrifice (since the drop chance is tied to the exp mobs gives) you could infinitely farm items in Gilded Coast and Void Fields too

But that's with the artifact already on, which OP isn't complaining about.

[Apoth]

Originally posted by Spoopy:

Originally posted by CFis:

No, it means that if you use Sacrifice (since the drop chance is tied to the exp mobs gives) you could infinitely farm items in Gilded Coast and Void Fields too

But that's with the artifact already on, which OP isn't complaining about.

I know, I just making it clear I guess, I might have read it wrong

[NoTruePunk]

Originally posted by CFis:

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

what do you mean by this? Your player level determines the number of chests in a stage?

No, it means that if you use Sacrifice (since the drop chance is tied to the exp mobs gives) you could infinitely farm items in Gilded Coast and Void Fields too

Ah, okay. No, there seems to be a misunderstanding, my argument that farming XP on void fields and gilded coast is balanced is based on non-artifact runs. In non-artifact runs it's possible to farm xp and put up a couple banners in gilded coast but it doesn't help for very long after you leave, only 2-5 stages I'd say. That might be just what you need to give you an edge in terms of items, but the XP catches up as soon as the enemies get stronger.

[NoTruePunk]

Originally posted by CFis:

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

Okay, you're right, it would be weird to have the rules of the trial be slightly different than the rules of the artifact. Maybe the artifact should be nerfed. Should it be possible to farm items endlessly on guilded coast and void fields with the artifact active?

Nerf the artifact's drops to be hyperbolic over time and make each of the trials only possible to run once per game, just like void fields. Then it'll be fixed.

If you nerf the artifact drop chance you are killing it, they COULD change how the chance works right now (since its tied to exp the longer the run the more items can drop).
Now I do agree that trials should be a 1 time per run, at least for each artifact. Something like if you already unlocked it the portal to the trial doesn't work

That also balances normal runs well, as the longer you wait to use the sacrifice trial the more items you get from it, but the less you need it. So running command trial on stage 5 to fill out your set, then something else on 10 and then sacrifice on stage 15 should give a good power curve.

[HughManatee]

Dude complains about artifacts being unbalanced, and is now theorycrafting the best way to make them unbalanced.

[Neire]

Trial of Sacrifice already has a mechanism that prevents people from farming too much in the first stage. Basically, it reduces drop rate the longer you are there. I imagine it is because first stage mobs are very weak even if you stay there for a year, so the devs wanted to spice things up by forcing you to move to a stage where you could be potentially one-shotted by Beetle Guards or Brass Contraptions.

This issue would be pretty easy to fix: just apply the same droprate reduction over time formula to Hidden Realms. At some point, things will become too boring to farm endlessly. The B option would be to increase in-Hidden Realm difficulty (spawning Blazing Elder Lemurians galore or something like that) after a humongous amount of time has passed inside it, like 15-20 minutes or so. After getting out of the Hidden Realm, the difficulty returns to what it used to be.

[NoTruePunk]

Originally posted by Black:

Trial of Sacrifice already has a mechanism that prevents people from farming too much in the first stage. Basically, it reduces drop rate the longer you are there. I imagine it is because first stage mobs are very weak even if you stay there for a year, so the devs wanted to spice things up by forcing you to move to a stage where you could be potentially one-shotted by Beetle Guards or Brass Contraptions.

This issue would be pretty easy to fix: just apply the same droprate reduction over time formula to Hidden Realms.

This is the best option imo. It's fine if the artifact is broke as hecke, but it should't impact gameplay if the artifact isn't active.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

This is the best option imo. It's fine if the artifact is broke as hecke, but it should't impact gameplay if the artifact isn't active.

It doesn't break gameplay if you get some self control and use the normal Tele on Sky Meadow.

This is such sillyness to complaint about frivolous non-problems that the Devs already said they're not interested in chasing.

[Nada Afterwards]

So, to recap:

• OP found you can farm loot in the trial of sacrifice without suffering the drawback of said artifact throughout the entire run.
  
• OP dislikes the idea of this being a strategy. They also seem to have an urge to use the best strategies despite their preferences.
  
• OP is now in the forums trying to prove why this needs to be changed and is brainstorming possible solutions... All because they don't like a strategy that no one is forcing them to take.

Kind of going into "how dare you play differently than me" territory don't you think? just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean everyone shouldn't be able to do it.

Also,

Originally posted by NoTruePunk:

No, stacking shaped glass was very broken and then OSP was nerfed and adjusted several times to fix it. I'd argue this is even more broken than that.

"Several times"? I see only one change relating to OSP in the update changelogs and that's the one where they made it so barrier doesn't get its own OSP. Shaped glass stacking is still a very viable strategy considering your health is at the low double digits but your base regen + heal items aren't affected. How is this not the best strategy anymore?

[Flori281]

this thread is making my brain smooth

Originally posted by _biggoodeeny:

Originally posted by Hopoo Games:

However, our final decision was that the design of Artifacts, and the systems around it, won’t prioritize balance. For a system like Artifacts, it felt wrong to limit their strengths or reduce their access for the sake of the balance of a “normal” run. Unlocking them also requires reaching the 5th stage, which is not an easy task for all players.

The intent for Artifacts is to be fun and to add replayability, not to be balanced as a part of the core loop. Consider them almost like secrets or cheat codes: they make the game different. Sometimes harder, sometimes easier. Hopefully always fun.

this is your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ answer. you can vote no on artifacts as well in mp, literally just try talking to people. if they don't wanna take off artifacts then leave. it's not an exploit because...the devs have played their game. time stops in other places too like null portal lmfao you think they don't know about this?
it isn't part of the main loop either because artifacts aren't part of the main loop. at all. and you have more than enough control to prevent farming anyways by activating the teleporter or just completing the damn artifact event. why are steam players of all games so obsessed with making idiotic, useless posts all the time just to complain about nothing? actually shut the ♥♥♥♥ up. at least add to a meaningful discussion instead of just wasting time, i swear i'm gonna commit a war crime one of these days

[a e s t h e t i c]

Originally posted by Floridian281:

this thread is making my brain smooth

Originally posted by _biggoodeeny:

this is your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ answer. you can vote no on artifacts as well in mp, literally just try talking to people. if they don't wanna take off artifacts then leave. it's not an exploit because...the devs have played their game. time stops in other places too like null portal lmfao you think they don't know about this?
it isn't part of the main loop either because artifacts aren't part of the main loop. at all. and you have more than enough control to prevent farming anyways by activating the teleporter or just completing the damn artifact event. why are steam players of all games so obsessed with making idiotic, useless posts all the time just to complain about nothing? actually shut the ♥♥♥♥ up. at least add to a meaningful discussion instead of just wasting time, i swear i'm gonna commit a war crime one of these days

Malding cheater

[bob]

There should actually be zero sacrifice drops in void fields besides one per cell vent, just like there are zero chests in them. The stage has special rules for chest spawns so I don't see why it wouldn't have special rules for sacrifice drops.

[JHarlequin]

Originally posted by эщкере:

There should actually be zero sacrifice drops in void fields besides one per cell vent, just like there are zero chests in them. The stage has special rules for chest spawns so I don't see why it wouldn't have special rules for sacrifice drops.

You might be right that it should have special rules, but it is also true that the artifacts are supposed to break the rules.

It might split the player base just a little bit, but until it becomes easier to vote on artifacts, they probably need to set the matchmaking for "with artifacts and without artifacts" so that people that aren't interested in an artifact run can be sure that they don't play with artifacts.

Maybe a bit later in developement artifacts will get a few more changes so that they don't bypass every normal feature, but currently, they are specifically in the game to break rules.

[DdD CeKô DdD]

Originally posted by _biggoodeeny:

Originally posted by Hopoo Games:

However, our final decision was that the design of Artifacts, and the systems around it, won’t prioritize balance. For a system like Artifacts, it felt wrong to limit their strengths or reduce their access for the sake of the balance of a “normal” run. Unlocking them also requires reaching the 5th stage, which is not an easy task for all players.

The intent for Artifacts is to be fun and to add replayability, not to be balanced as a part of the core loop. Consider them almost like secrets or cheat codes: they make the game different. Sometimes harder, sometimes easier. Hopefully always fun.