Radar Scanner really should get a buff.

[Juno]

Most people don't use this thing. It'd be nice if it got a buff.

I really think it needs to show object, not just '?'. It might be clutter, but you know how you can ping and highlight items, even through walls? I think when you use radar, everything on the map should get highlighted.

I honestly don't even know if that would be enough to make this a good pickup over a damage equipment, but I think it'd be better.

[JPC]

go off doughboy

[squat_instructor]

Go on

[Jimmy Hunter]

Origineel geplaatst door doughboy:

So, I gladly will. Tell me if you need to put things in simpler words, because I'm not sure if your intelligent enough to understand all the concepts here

Starting off with Ad Hominiums? I'm going to enjoy ripping this post apart.

You have laid out the three following arguments:
- It shows you valuable information
- It speeds up the game

Removing the 2nd point since we're basically in agreement outside of the fact that you can use the Radar Scanner as a means of using War Horns. This means it's possible to build around it in situations where you do not find something better to replace it with. That's a discussion for another thread builds anyways since Command isn't part of the base game.

It is not valuable information.

Your problem is your not actually explaining why this is not valuable information. All you've done is state it over and over without explaining why. You're hand waving this point away, and your data only helps me prove this.

Let's see what we find on the way to the tele.

Hold the phone there bud, this isn't what you said or implied.

Your words were;

there is no reason to pick this up because there are always atleast 5 chests within LOS of spawn and teleporter.

I conducted 7 tests. I spawned in on level one and made the most straight path I could to where the tele was. I know the tele spawns, so in general I know the best direction to take. That previous fact is a hinderance to me, as going wrong directions would show more chests, but whatever.

Here's a thing. If you know where the Tele is, there is no reason to run to it if you're not planning on rushing the Tele. Doing that is already directly effecting the results of what you can find with the Radar Scanner, and what you can find and loot without.

If the goal is to find more chests due to knowing where the Tele is, it doesn't matter what's on the way to the Tele because you know now which dead ends to go to, what dead ends to ignore, what places have the best odds for a chest, and what place you can see the only item marked from afar and move onto the next honey pot.

So, lets see how many interactables I spot as I head towards the tele....So, averaging it out you get 3.5 chests, which is the main thing we care about.

So this means that what you said in the first place was still incorrect. Your averaging even less than what you originally said was visable from both Spawn and Teleport.

If you exclude Trial 6, which had terrible RNG, you get a straight 4 chests. I may have missed some chests or something, who knows. This is just what I saw. So remember, if I had human error there are more interactables.

You know what would have helped you check that? A proper test of using the same seed across 2 different players. One using the Radar Scanner, and one not using the Radar Scanner.

I'm glad you're atleast using data instead of insults, but your data doesn't actually reach your original expectations nor does it really give us any real information towards the discussion at hand towards the Radar Scanner vs Not having Radar Scanner and if it's useful.

You should, in the first loop, only get around four or five items in a run. So, on average, you don't need the Radar.

False Equivilance.

There is no "item limit" in which you have on each stage. The goal is to get as many items/drones as you can within X amount of time given before/after the Teleporter. This is capped by what spawns, what you can find to spend gold on, and how fast you can get there.

If I remember correctly you're also telling me that knowing where items does not equate to finding them faster. Hmm, how odd.

Even with bad trials like 4 or 6, I know that I spawned where chests aren't, so I just need to go to the other area of the map. It's that simple. You never need Radar.

Wetlands. You spawn by the small lone tower by the clifface. Without using a Radar, please tell me how you can find out what deadends have items, which do not, and which islands are worth your time to look through.

Don't trust me? Do you're own trials.

I have. Guess I need to start compiling everything I do since suggesting others to do their own trails means they get invalid data that they twist around until it says what they want it to say, instead of saying what it says.

Lastly, does it speed up the game?

According to your data, it doesn't. But that's also because you didn't actually do comparisons to how it can improve time. So it's not a surprise that you're saying it doesn't.

Firstly, because it encourages going for chests far away

You running to the furthest corner of the map is showing that you're not using the information to make a good decision.

but secondly, because it may give you a false lead.

How is it a false lead if it tells you there's something there vs checking it and finding out there was nothing worth getting? That's a net equal.

What if you were planning on going down a deadend, but scan and see nothing? That's a net positive.

So, you have a single point standing: It's better than nothing.

So far, I'm 2/2 on being able to defend my points and 1/1 with some disagreements about application. You're citing data that doesn't support your points, making assumptions about what it causes, and you're also not applying the knowledge you gain to save time.

Ah, the classic one man army.

Ah, the classic "Group thunk = true" argument.

In order for you to 'poke logical holes' you must now do your own personal trials, assuming you don't believe me. Just telling you before hand. Because the evidence speaks.

I agree evidence speaks. That's why your tests didn't prove anything towards if the Radar Scanner is useful.

I'm not taking it personally, I'm just upset that people dumb as you exist. Maybe that is personal, actually. Because I'd be a lot happier if I never knew people like you existed.

I'd be happier if I didn't have to make long winded explainations to people like yourselves using fallacies, assumptions, and twisting data to do what it wants. But unfortunately, here we are.

[squat_instructor]

man, this thread is straight from JoJo episode

[Juno]

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

Removing the 2nd point since we're basically in agreement outside of the fact that you can use the Radar Scanner as a means of using War Horns. This means it's possible to build around it in situations where you do not find something better to replace it with. That's a discussion for another thread builds anyways since Command isn't part of the base game.

If you're going for a War Horn build, the Radar Scanner has a completely average cooldown. Adding up the cooldowns of every single equipment and then dividing by 17 (number of equipments, excluding Fuel Array and Elite equipment) gives us 50 seconds as an average. Radar Scanner has a cooldown of 45. There are much better equipments with much shorter cooldowns. Some of them even heal you or deal damage. If you're looking for a War Horn build, Gnarled Woodsprite for heals or Royal Capacitor for damage are your best options.

You're argument is terrible and it's clear your grasping for strays.

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

Your problem is your not actually explaining why this is not valuable information. All you've done is state it over and over without explaining why. You're hand waving this point away, and your data only helps me prove this.

I don't blatantly state it because I assume you're not a braindead troglodyte, but alas.

Best strat is to rush the teleporter, getting about four items per stage. The ?'s are not valuable information because just by running to the teleporter, you on average fine 3.5 chests, 0.5 Shrine of Chances, and 0.5 Equipment Barrels. There is new data at the bottom of the document. You find enough items without needing the Radar, so it's useless information. Understand that?

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

Let's see what we find on the way to the tele.

Hold the phone there bud, this isn't what you said or implied.

Your words were;

there is no reason to pick this up because there are always atleast 5 chests within LOS of spawn and teleporter.

Keep crying baby. My data is still valid, I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ what I said in the past because I misworded it wrong. Waaah.

I'm ignoring the whole middle section of your argument because it's retarded. As for the "b-b-but u said there were 5 chests!!!" Firstly sure I did. Doesn't matter. It was hyperbole, heard of it? 3.5 chests, and then SOC's and Equip Barrels are more than enough per stage, especially since you get a free green per stage.

You talk about 'going to the next honey pot' which the Radar shows you, but my evidence already shows you naturally have enough items. If you're wasting time going to 'the next honey pot' you are going to lose because you spent too long on that stage. I'm sure your used to losing though.

Here's more evidence, this time with a video rather than screenshots.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79z2IHV4HUI&feature=youtu.be

Interactables:
MoneyB - Money Barrel
EquipB - Equipment Barrel
SChest - Small Chest
TChest - Type Chest (EX healing, damage, utility)
BChest - Big Chest
MultiS - Multi Shop
Print - 3D Printer
SoChance - Shrine of Chance
SoBlood - Shrine of Blood
SoCombat - Shrine of Combat
SoMountain - Mountain Shrine
SoWood - Shrine of the Woods
Drone - Gunner, Healing, or Turret

Trial - Map - Interactables
1 TP : 3MoneyB, 3SChest, 1MultiS, 2Drone, 1SoChance
2 ADR : 5MoneyB, 2SChest, 1Drone
3 DR : 7MoneyB, 1SChest, 1BChest, 1MultiS, 2Drone 1SoChance
4 TP : 4MoneyB, 1SChest, 2SoChance, 1SoCombat
5 TP: 5MoneyB, 3SChest, 1TChest, 1Drone
6 ADR: 1MoneyB, 1EquipB, 1TChest, 3MultiS,
7 ADR: 5MoneyB, 2EquipB, 1SChest, 1TChest, 3MultiS, 2Drone, 1SoBlood, 1SoMountain
8 DR : 2EquipB, 2SChest, 1TChest, 1BChest, 1Drone
9 ADR: 2MoneyB, 1EquipB, 4SChest, 1TChest, 2Drone, 1SoChance, 1SoWood
10 TP: 5MoneyB, 2SChest, 2MultiS, 1Drone, 1Print
11 ATP: 2MoneyB, 1SChest, 1BChest, 1MultiS, 1Drone, 1SoChance, 1SoCombat
12 DR: 2MoneyB, 5SChest, 3Drone, 1SoBlood
13 ADR: 5MoneyB, 1EquipB, 1SChest, 1TChest, 1Drone, 1SoBlood, 1SoWood

So, on average per stage there are…
.5 Equip Barrels and Shrine of Chances
1.33 Drones.
2.5 Money Barrels
3.5 ‘item purchases’ (Chests, Multi Shops)

Where's your evidence, hm? It's really easy to claim false evidence, so put forward some of your own.

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

I'm glad you're atleast using data instead of insults,

You're an idiot who doesn't pay attention to statistics and in hypocritical irony skew my words, despite you accusing me of skewing data. You clearly have nothing better to do other than argue with people online, however so do I. Granted atleast, I'm barely seventeen and of course have nothing better to do right now. You should really be able to do something other than do this all day because it's pathetic. You play this game less than half the amount of time I do and yet you have such a superiority complex that you think your right no matter what, even when multiple others disagree you refuse to take my points into account. You see my points, cover your eyes and go 'yo-you're skewing evidence!' and cry like a baby. And then you insult me for 'ignoring your arguments' even though I dissect them one by one. You try and take the higher stance of 'I won't call them names because I'm mature!' but you don't realize I couldn't care at all. You're annoying. You comment on practically every threat I make regarding balance and without flaw you always find a reason to be the devils advocate no matter how many others disagree with you and no matter how stupid your points are.

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

Because you don't start with equipment? I like how quickly you moved the goalposts because you disliked how my answer gives merit to it's usage.

LUL BETTER THAN NO EQUIPMENT LUL
^ When I say you make stupid points, I'm talking about crap like this ^

If you had actual good arguments, you wouldn't have to insult my wording and you could explain why the item is good. Stop playing on the defensive and batting away my arguments because you're a loser. Give me a good argument already, Jesus Christ.

[elvendualwielder]

*stands at ravine, with two people screaming at opposite edges* anyone else know what's going on?

[Juno]

Origineel geplaatst door elvendualwielder:

*stands at ravine, with two people screaming at opposite edges* anyone else know what's going on?

He believes these:

Origineel geplaatst door doughboy:

[quote=Jimmy
You have laid out the three following arguments:
- It shows you valuable information
- It's better than no equipment
- It speeds up the game

And I believe that number 2 is true, but it's a weak argument. I also believe that the first and third argument are untrue, and even if they were true, it doesn't warrant taking it rather than a healing or dps equipment.

Reading my 3rd most recent post, and his most recent post gives you a good idea of this entire thread.

[Bingles]

yall dumb af if you don't use one of the lowest CD items in the game with Warhorns.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Origineel geplaatst door doughboy:

Reading my 3rd most recent post, and his most recent post gives you a good idea of this entire thread.

I can sum this thread up much easier without a bunch of BS and name calling from you.

Me: Radar Scanner does it's intended job and isn't in need of a buff. It provides enough data to help figure it out a route in which you can see the most amount of interactables in the X amount of time you're giving yourself either before or after the Tele, and it can save you time by checking dead ends.

You: Rambling about small amounts of random data tangents on Stage 1, suggesting you shouldn't grab too many items even if you have the time, not using radar scanners in side by side tests to show that it's in need of buffing, and suggesting I waste time on showing you screenshots of a deadend not having a ? because you can't visualize such a concept.

It's fine if you don't understand or can't bother to learn how to use the Radar Scanner. Can't force a horse to drink after all.

[Juno]

Origineel geplaatst door Jimmy Hunter:

Origineel geplaatst door doughboy:

Reading my 3rd most recent post, and his most recent post gives you a good idea of this entire thread.

I can sum this thread up much easier without a bunch of BS and name calling from you.

'wuh im two stoopid too ungderstend wat hes seyng he musst b rambelin'

Atleast I did a decent job summing up your points and didn't just say that you were rambling for you're page long posts. Real mature isn't it?- just throwing around BS. Fun fact: You can be insulting without name calling. Most ironically you insult me by not taking my points into account- or maybe you're just not smart enough to understand it. Probably the second.

I wasn't raised in a house for pretty princesses so I'm find with calling you an idiot. Because it's true. Everything you say is moronic and has no basis in reality or true statistics.

You yell at me 'well, how do u know, u didn't test 4 time huh?' How about you do it? It's your argument. My argument was you can find 4 interactables on the way to the teleporter and it was proven true. Your argument is that it speeds up the game, so do some monsoon obliteration runs with and without the radar. Prove your point, or if your too lazy you just lose. Do you actually want to have an argument without me calling you names? Prove to me your worth having an argument with. Right now you just seem like a loser devils advocate.

Also, I find it funny you haven't come back with any evidence or really even an argument, and rather you just insult my arguments. Obviously that's how winners do it.

You're pathetic.

[pvnco - afk til 2026]

loads of people use it.

[HughManatee]

Friendly reminder to everyone that private profiles are always trolls.

[Juno]

Origineel geplaatst door ninjaguy Dan:

Friendly reminder to everyone that private profiles are always trolls.

There we go, public now. Happy you baby?

[Cocofang]

There is actually a mod that adds specific icons to the radar. Makes it pretty powerful imo.

It's called ScannerPlusOne. You can find it on thunderstore, where loads of RoR2 mods are maintained.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Origineel geplaatst door Count Cocofang:

There is actually a mod that adds specific icons to the radar. Makes it pretty powerful imo.

It's called ScannerPlusOne. You can find it on thunderstore, where loads of RoR2 mods are maintained.

Bingo.

There ya go OP, now you can have your cake and eat it too!