Damage calculations

[💜 Jonni]

How exactly is damage calculated for items? Is it calculated based on your character's damage stat or the damage of the attack that procs it?

For example, will Tri-Dagger deal more damage per tick if it procs from Loader's Charged Gauntlet (2700%) and less if it procs from his basic attack (320%)? Or will it simply always deal the same amount of damage because it scales off your base damage stat?

I'm asking because I'd like to know if on-hit damage items are worth it on a Loader crowbar build

[Boksha]

Depends on the item. Tri-Dagger for example deals damage based on your character's base damage, but most on-hit items deal damage based on your attacks' damage. I think for most (all?) items this is indicated in the item's description; look for the phrase "base damage" vs. "total damage".

Edit: I'm pretty sure "total damage" items also gain the damage from Crowbar, so for example, if you hit a healthy enemy for huge damage with the Crowbar, and an AtG missile is fired, that AtG missile will also deal huge damage even if it for example hits a boss that's already well below 90% HP.

[💜 Jonni]

Originally posted by Boksha:

Depends on the item. Tri-Dagger for example deals damage based on your character's base damage, but most on-hit items deal damage based on your attacks' damage. I think for most (all?) items this is indicated in the item's description; look for the phrase "base damage" vs. "total damage".

Oh you're right, I just now realized it sometimes says total and sometimes base damage. Does that mean Sticky Bombs will actually deal more damage than the attack that proc it since it's 180% total damage?

What about items like Kjaro's Band which only state "500% damage"?

[Boksha]

Pretty sure they're multiplicative, yes, including the two bands.

[pigstrr]

items calculate damage difrently. items like shaped glass would doule any damage you do but other item like the preon will do damage based off of your default damage

[Ittrix]

Pretty much every proc item outside of tri tip and on death are multiplicative with the damage you dealt to proc them. It usually says 'base damage' as opposed to total damage or damage when it isn't multiplicative.

[💜 Jonni]

Just found out at least Sticky Bomb doesn't stack with Crowbar. I managed to proc one off a 1774 basic attack on a full health enemy, but it still dealt the same damage as when proc'ing from a regular 161 attack (290)

[pigstrr]

Sticky bombs do base damage

[💜 Jonni]

"5% (+5% per stack) chance on hit to attach a bomb to an enemy, detonating for 180% TOTAL damage."

[Boksha]

That actually sounds like a bug more than anything... good to know, though. As they say in Dutch: "Meten is weten" (measuring is knowing)

[💜 Jonni]

I guess it'd be easy enough to find out for sure, I'm just lazy and was hoping someone had a definitive answer first. I'll just spend tomorrow testing various damage items on Huntress with one Crowbar and Command enabled

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by ♠ Jonni:

What about items like Kjaro's Band which only state "500% damage"?

Kjaro's Band does 500% damage over the entire duration of the Tornado. It's not very good against small targets due to loving to wander off, but against Boss Monsters it can do some respectable damage.

[💜 Jonni]

Well I tested a bunch of stuff and it turns out nothing so far stacks with Crowbar in the way that I asked.

I tested as Huntress with one Crowbar at first, then 5, at levels 1 through 10. Items I tested so far were Tri-Tip Dagger, Sticky Bomb, AtG Missile, Ukulele and Will-o'-the-Wisp. None were dealing increased base damage when proccing off a Crowbar-buffed attack on a full-health enemy.

In other words, all the items above dealt the same amount of damage when they were procced by a full-health enemy with 5 Crowbars as they did when proccing off a below-90% health enemy. They also all dealt the same increased damage when hitting full-health enemies, regardless of how they procced.

So at least these items are next to useless when stacking Crowbars for someone like Loader, or MUL-T, as all they're likely to do is push most enemies' health just below 90% and render your Crowbars useless. I'll test the rest of the on-hit damage items like the Bands, Razorwire, Brilliant Behemoth, Ceremonial Dagger and so on tomorrow.

[Ittrix]

So you hit a full health enemy which procced it and it didn't do more damage, or you procced it while the enemy was still above 90% HP and it didn't do more damage?

[fluffy buny]

so i would assume the calculation for a single attack would look roughly like this:

totaldamage = basedamage * attackdamage * critmod * armormod(?)

where basedamage is the character's base damage stat, attackdamage is the damage% of the skill used in decimal, critmod is 1 or 2 depending on if the crit roll succeeded, and armormod is some modifer from the enemy's armor value which i don't really know anything about

and from there the final damage is presumably calculated separately based on a few other modifiers:

finaldamage = totaldamage * itemmod * crowbarmod * crystalmod

itemmod is 1 unless the attack is coming from a procced item that scales with total damage, in which case the total damage from the hit that procced it has been stored in the object and gets re-used whenever the object's effect damages the enemy. for instance, a sticky bomb object would remember how much damage was used to proc it and then run this finaldamage calculation for every enemy it hits when it explodes

in short, final damage can change dramatically between hitting an enemy and having that hit spawn an object that damages the enemy again, because crowbars and focus crystals are re-checked and calculated

this is all just an untested assumption and it's probable there are some inaccuracies; armormod and crystalmod could go in either damage calculation for all i know. and i don't remember if any items can still crit or not independently of the attack that procced them

[💜 Jonni]

Originally posted by Ittrix:

So you hit a full health enemy which procced it and it didn't do more damage, or you procced it while the enemy was still above 90% HP and it didn't do more damage?

Damage against 90%+ health enemies works as you would expect, but these items don't deal extra damage if they proc off a higher initial damage value - They were ALWAYS static.

Sooo... So far, "total" vs "base" damage doesn't seem to be any different.