5th stage is...problematic

[Shining_Darkness]

It is a huge problem currently. The two new enemies have overly chunky HP it feels like that stage in general has higher scaling (I'm talking elite lesser wisps take way longer than old loop 2 5th stage) and is far too large in comparison to the other stages (excluding void) with too many places for the regular teleport to be hidden.

I would not mind it so much if the entire game up to this point has been balanced around a 4 stage loop. With this 5th stage added and mandatory the game feels harder in a bad way. Just make it an optional portal added to the stage 4 teleporter or make it like the void and just put a special portal in the bazaar.

The mushrooms seem a little over-tuned in general not just HP.

All the items and artifacts are great though as well as the other changes. Some need some buffing to be viable/worthy of the tier they are (houseplant).

I say this having unlocked everything but all the artifacts. I just kinda hate stage 5 too much to keep playing to unlock all of them.

[Rhadamante]

I haven't checked yet (but I will in a moment) but if you can re-enter a previously unlocked Trial, you can skip Sky Meadows completely by rushing to the formula thingie and entering a simple one.

Exiting the Bulwark's Ambry brings you to one of the level 1 as if you had looped and since time is stopped, you only lost what little time you needed to reach the artifact portal.

[Shining_Darkness]

Originally posted by Rhadamante:

I haven't checked yet (but I will in a moment) but if you can re-enter a previously unlocked Trial, you can skip Sky Meadows completely by rushing to the formula thingie and entering a simple one.

Exiting the Bulwark's Ambry brings you to one of the level 1 as if you had looped and since time is stopped, you only lost what little time you needed to reach the artifact portal.

Yes but that just make the stage equivalent to a time tax. Which is still a problem. I mean that is what I did to get the engi skin (which engi now has the most work to do to get his skin if you had all the others, thanks hopoo)

[GIRL]

The addition of a 5th stage doesn't make it take any longer to get to the Celestial Portal, if that's what you're trying to go for. Celestial Portal opens after 7 stages (not including Bazaar/Void Fields, etc), so a 5th stage just means you'll see it on the second stage after your first loop rather than the third. To me the stage doesn't feel any worse than either of the regular 4th stages. It's about as big, if not a bit smaller, and the two enemies you consider HP sinks are simply avoidable like any other enemy.

If you're trying to rush to the Celestial, just do what you've always done. Grab a handful of items from each stage, try to keep each level under 6 minutes, and then head to the teleporter. You don't need to kill everything or grab every single chest.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by A Cardboard Box:

The addition of a 5th stage doesn't make it take any longer to get to the Celestial Portal, if that's what you're trying to go for. Celestial Portal opens after 7 stages (not including Bazaar/Void Fields, etc), so a 5th stage just means you'll see it on the second stage after your first loop rather than the third. To me the stage doesn't feel any worse than either of the regular 4th stages. It's about as big, if not a bit smaller, and the two enemies you consider HP sinks are simply avoidable like any other enemy.

If you're trying to rush to the Celestial, just do what you've always done. Grab a handful of items from each stage, try to keep each level under 6 minutes, and then head to the teleporter. You don't need to kill everything or grab every single chest.

Celestial still only opens on Rallypoint/Scorched

[Shining_Darkness]

Originally posted by A Cardboard Box:

The addition of a 5th stage doesn't make it take any longer to get to the Celestial Portal, if that's what you're trying to go for. Celestial Portal opens after 7 stages (not including Bazaar/Void Fields, etc), so a 5th stage just means you'll see it on the second stage after your first loop rather than the third. To me the stage doesn't feel any worse than either of the regular 4th stages. It's about as big, if not a bit smaller, and the two enemies you consider HP sinks are simply avoidable like any other enemy.

If you're trying to rush to the Celestial, just do what you've always done. Grab a handful of items from each stage, try to keep each level under 6 minutes, and then head to the teleporter. You don't need to kill everything or grab every single chest.

I'm not just trying to reach celestial though. I'm trying to have a good time. How the heck do you think the new stage is smaller than the others? While it has roughly the same over-all space from a top-down perspective, it has more verticality and the shape of the map makes it difficult to traverse. It FEELS big, and that is not a good thing.

The ability to avoid the new enemies does not make them any less of a problem. You can technically avoid all the enemies (other than teleport bosses) so that is a terrible argument.

Also, while yes the celestial portal spawns stage 7 no matter what, that isn't what the loop balance was. The loop balance was the legendary chest spawn and Alloy which you get the first one in the same time but the second now comes a full stage later which translates to roughly 6-10 minutes later which means tougher elders, more elite contraptions, and a bulkier Alloy. That is the balance I am talking about. You hit some key moments in your runs much later than before.

And lets face it, the new stage's only real purpose is that is where the portal machine to unlock artifacts is, which is a bad and lazy way to unlock them IMO. Would have been better as objects to hunt for or a secret portal you need to trigger in each area. As it is it is just punch in a combination and go to the same area with a different challenge that is really just the artifact effect+annoying projectiles.

[Rhadamante]

Originally posted by Shining_Darkness:

Also, while yes the celestial portal spawns stage 7 no matter what, that isn't what the loop balance was. The loop balance was the legendary chest spawn and Alloy which you get the first one in the same time but the second now comes a full stage later which translates to roughly 6-10 minutes later which means tougher elders, more elite contraptions, and a bulkier Alloy. That is the balance I am talking about. You hit some key moments in your runs much later than before.

You're talking about an unfinished game, you can't talk about balance in this regard yet. RoR1 had 5 levels before looping, it was obvious RoR2 would follow the same pattern so the previous "balance" based on 4 couldn't be the correct one. It's just what you were used to.

Originally posted by Shining_Darkness:

And lets face it, the new stage's only real purpose is that is where the portal machine to unlock artifacts is

That doesn't make any sense, the 5th level purpose is to be the 5th level, it doesn't have any less of a reason to be there than any other level. The fact that it contains the artifact thingie is irrelevant. It has everything any other level has (save for a variant but RoR1 Temple of the Elders didn't have one either).