Should Lunar Items Be Better?

[GIRL]

I just wanna take a sort of loose survey here. Lunar items seem to be sort of the replacement for relics (at least, at the moment). Which is fine, but I feel they shouldn't be so... risky? I'm not sure how to phrase it.

The fact they cost a rare currency is why I believe they should be better, not because I just don't like them or think they're unfair. If you're saving up a rare currency to buy a rare item, shouldn't it be... like, BETTER than a rare (red) item?

I can see items being added that have the risk/reward system Lunar items do, but maybe we could just call them Risk items? (Would also sorta be thematic with the title, eh?) They could have purple outlines, and have really great upsides in trade for really scary downsides. But they'd just cost money like any other chest or vending machine.

Maybe I'm just salty. I dunno. I just don't feel like Lunar items are that great right now, they don't make the game very fun for me. I think they can have downsides, sure, but currently the downsides completely negate the upsides. If it was less a 50/50 trade-off, and more a 75/25 one, I think they'd be way more fun and enticing. I'd actually WANT to save up a ton of Lunar and find Newt Shrines to get them during runs.

Right now I feel like I want to stay away from Lunar Pods and Newt Shrines as possible, and I think that's a subtraction from the game. That's my take at some criticism.

[succubus.Arte]

Originally posted by Mission Control Guy:

The fact they cost a rare currency is why I believe they should be better, not because I just don't like them or think they're unfair. If you're saving up a rare currency to buy a rare item, shouldn't it be... like, BETTER than a rare (red) item?

Nah. If this was the case it would just turn into a situation where you grind 10 runs (or just edit your user file with notepad) until you have enough coins to do a proper run. Would completely kill any motivation to play the game if you need to grind lunar coins so you can buy your OP as ♥♥♥♥ items for an actual run.

Lunar items are fun if you want to mix things up once in a while (ever tried gesture of the drowned+fuel cells+glowing meteorite? Not viable, but very funny run). Ignore them if you want to do a standard run.

[Tialys]

I think they should change the way you get theses items. Something like you get 1Coin (only for this run) if you flawless a special event which can be triggered at a shrine (like combat shrine).

Similar to devil deals in Binding of Isaac (if you kill a boss without taking red heart damage you have a chance to open a devil deal -> get strong items while loosing max HP)

[KDR_11k]

Nah, they're fine as tradeoff items. Some could use reworking though, e.g. the brittle crown seems utterly worthless and the effigy and hellfire tincture seem way too risky to use even without their tradeoffs just because you have to get dangerously close to the enemy.

[Neon Black Interactive]

Some of the lunar items are complete trash and probably need a rework.

[Nanako]

Tradeoff items are fine as a concept, but having to pay out your ultrarare coins to get a tradeoff is not good

Pretty much agreed with OP. Things you buy with lunar coins should be pure positive. Items that come with tradeoffs like this should be more common and found without spending coins

[MeatShake]

They're extreme gambles. They locked the gambles behind a few limiting factors to ensure they don't just trash your run you have to willingly take the risk. I think it's ok.

[scram]

Originally posted by Nanako =^.^=:

Tradeoff items are fine as a concept, but having to pay out your ultrarare coins to get a tradeoff is not good

Pretty much agreed with OP. Things you buy with lunar coins should be pure positive. Items that come with tradeoffs like this should be more common and found without spending coins

This guarantees easy runs if you save up coins to stack lunar items and makes normal runs much harder without them if conventional items have tradeoffs. So, no.

[The Hue Man]

I once got glass on Mul_T. It was the best run I ever had.

On the flip side, the first time i got brittle crown after 5 minutes i stood still and let the enemies kill me because it was so awful.

[BananaBadman]

Some of the lunar items are already stupid OP.

Stacking Transcendence gives you a ton of shield which will near instantly regenerate if you just run away and don't get hit for a bit.

Gesture of the Drowned is currently bugged and can ruin your run, but if you can get it working properly, stacking will result in a nonstop equipment item firing off constantly. This can give you pseudo-godmode with the healing equipment as you'll only be able to die from 1hit kills while the damage equipment items will destroy everything onscreen.

[Nivelhein]

Blues should be even more of a gamble. Transcendence is great (maybe it should have worse stacking). The choice between big shield and getting benefit from regen and lifesteal is great. Glass is completely fine, it really is a choice whether you pick it up or not. Crown is useless, doesn't even do anything in the late game. Same with active items. 3 gold for rolling 30%? Really? And it doesn't even really change your playstyle. You're always trying to dodge.

But making Crown interesting might not be all that difficult. Take Midas Touch from the Binding of Isaac, make it an on-hit chance with low chance (1-5%), it should turn your enemies into gold either permanently or for relatively long time (like 10-15s) and the drawback is that you're unable to get gold from regular enemies that hasn't been turned to gold, but you get, say 100%-200% more gold, to balance it out. Make minor tweaks on how it affects boss mobs and you got yourself a fun item like the sneko eye from Slay the Spire.

[Buntkreuz]

half of them are clearly ♥♥♥♥♥. Like objectively bad or worse than standard items.
Some are cool though and its good they have to have a drawback.
Sadly none of them do something making the game more interesting or weirdly fun.

[Raisin Brandxn]

They either need to be better or they need to change the way you get lunar coins because spending 10 lunar coins on pods only to get Effigy of Grief over and over isnt cool

[GIRL]

So there's a clear issue here.
- Lunar items can't be mostly/completely positive, because then you could just save up a bunch of Lunar and get an ultra-god-mode run really easily.
BUT
- Lunar items are kinda 'meh', especially ones like Brittle Crown, and some players think you shouldn't have to pay for trade-off items. Which I agree with, because "trade-offs" were free in RoR1 (they were the artifacts).

Honestly I think Lunar coins should be like Hegemony credits in Enter the Gungeon. They're the only currency in the game that stays with you even after a run ends. Due to the way Rogue-lites work, it would make sense. You can't save up Hegemony credits in EtG to guarantee a super-awesome run, nor can you trade them in for risk/reward items and weapons.

What you CAN do with Hegemony is unlock items/weapons that can show up in your later runs. This doesn't necessarily make you any stronger, or give you any statistical advantage. It simply unlocks more options, more ways to play, new broken combos to find.

Achievements are well and good and all in RoR2, and I know you unlocked items the same way in RoR1, by doing achievements, but maybe unlocking items should be restricted to spending Lunar. Or it could be partly restricted - Have some items be achievement-unlock-only, and some items be unlocked by spending Lunar.

One other fun thing they could add for Lunar would be some sort of bonus store in the main menu. It could contain lore, concept art, insight from the devs, etc., all at the cost of some Lunar. Ya know, to give players who've already used all the "practical" uses of Lunar something to spend their excess Lunar on.

[Ghengis_John]

Originally posted by Sya:

Originally posted by Nanako =^.^=:

Tradeoff items are fine as a concept, but having to pay out your ultrarare coins to get a tradeoff is not good

Pretty much agreed with OP. Things you buy with lunar coins should be pure positive. Items that come with tradeoffs like this should be more common and found without spending coins

This guarantees easy runs if you save up coins to stack lunar items and makes normal runs much harder without them if conventional items have tradeoffs. So, no.

Agreed on all counts.

Personally I think they should still have trade-offs. I just don't find that their benefits are appealing enough that I want to chance their detriments at this point. But there's always the worry that you'll make them too good.

[wolfknight]

I feel like they need to not cost lunar coins instead make them cost money. Like a % of what you end the round with is saved for the Lunar shop. And make it so that the Lunar portal has a chance to spawn. But to make it hard so if your team is wiped, the money saved go's back to zero each run. This way lunar coins can be used for unlocking heroes and unlock new Lunar items maybe?