is the commando just that bad?

[jacobellinger]

I spent 8 hours yesterday trying to get a good run with him on monsoon and even though I have no problem given the same effort using any other character I just simply could not get past the 4th world with him. maybe rng was just messin' with me?

I tried to anylize why I might be having a hard time with this character and I think it might be that he has a very weak aoe combined with a low base attack. yes I know that each of his shots have a chance to proc but do to his low base attack speed you spend too much time farming as compared to other characters in the early game and on monsoon this is a death sentance.

I'm not really raging or anything I'm legitamatly trying to understand why I am strugling? is he a bd character or is there something I m missing here?

[shrimping]

i wouldn't say he is bad, but he definitely relies more on items than any other character. i've attempted itemless runs and he struggles more than any one else by a long shot

[Holy_Hobo]

The only category I'd say he's bad in is DPS. He's about average for everything, but his DPS(at least in my experience) is quite badl. Classes like huntress can get away with a low DPS because they are usually able to quickly take care of minions with their high damage per shot while higher dps classes can focus the boss, but commando just isn't good at either. His right click is honestly pretty useless, and his burst shot is so niche and has such a long cooldown that it's almost never useful, only for that extra bit of dps every now and then.

[jacobellinger]

Originally posted by Holy_Hobo:

The only category I'd say he's bad in is DPS. He's about average for everything, but his DPS(at least in my experience) is quite badl. Classes like huntress can get away with a low DPS because they are usually able to quickly take care of minions with their high damage per shot while higher dps classes can focus the boss, but commando just isn't good at either. His right click is honestly pretty useless, and his burst shot is so niche and has such a long cooldown that it's almost never useful, only for that extra bit of dps every now and then.

I even tried using a button macro to maximize dps with his cooldowns and still no luck.

[Gimlet Gelt]

No clue what you people are on about, commando is a jack of all trades, and most of my runs with him have been fine. His DPS is very mid-tier, but just like with any character, functions incredibly well with good drops. Maybe compared all of the other characters excluding huntress he can seem a bit underpowered, but he's also the only one with ranged and a dodge ability, every other ranged DPS is slower and has less survivability, and merc has the downfall of being melee only.

[Solemen Wolf]

Commando is fine.

The hard part is that he lacks decent crowd control so he has to rely on building up items for that.

So starting up and getting swarmed early is an issue that you kinda have to overcome on your own which takes a while. You have to mow down some enemies as they spawn and he can do that job well.

His strongest aspect is that he procs stuff more often compare to the other characters.

[Sotanaht]

Command is bad.

He relies on items for everything and doesn't actually use them better than anyone else. His guns have high spread, so on top of having to aim directly at enemies all the time (something all of the strongest characters don't have to worry about), you still miss at least a quarter of your shots simply because RNG spread. As a result, his hits per second for item procs and damage per second are both very low, and that's before considering he doesn't have any decent way to deal with larger numbers of enemies.

[jacobellinger]

Originally posted by Sotanaht:

Command is bad.

He relies on items for everything and doesn't actually use them better than anyone else. His guns have high spread, so on top of having to aim directly at enemies all the time (something all of the strongest characters don't have to worry about), you still miss at least a quarter of your shots simply because RNG spread. As a result, his hits per second for item procs and damage per second are both very low, and that's before considering he doesn't have any decent way to deal with larger numbers of enemies.

I have no problem with him on any dificulty but monsoon and on monsoon I have no problem playing with any other character but commando so . . .yeah.

[Plaguelight]

With RNG deciding if Commando can even HURT the enemies you face past "Easy", yes, Commando is bad. He needs his old Attack Speed steroid from the original game, and even that won't do much, but it'll at least give me a decent way to deal damage. Terrible spread on his basic attack still makes killing anything from far away damn near impossible.

[Ham]

Originally posted by krayfish:

i wouldn't say he is bad, but he definitely relies more on items than any other character. i've attempted itemless runs and he struggles more than any one else by a long shot

ALL survivors rely on items, they ALL completely rely on items, you will not get very far with no items with any survivor.

there are many item builds that will work very well with commando, maybe you just had some bad luck and did not find anything good?

[Teacyn]

Commando definitely feels like the weakest character to me. Artificer is in a weird spot but overall I think her "issues" mostly come down to player skill + the ice wall being kind of bad.

But commando on the other hand just feels awful to play for me. The devs have said that they think commando's issues are that he feels bad to play more so than he actually is too weak, and I definitely agree to a point. His attacks have very little impact and it feels like you just dink everything even though you're actually doing decent damage. That being said, I do think he has some legitimate issues.

- The RNG aim bloom is painful. It severely caps his range and makes fighting wisps a crapshot sometimes. Was the major damage falloff not enough?

- FMJ shot is really hard to aim sometimes, and it travels really slow. MUL-Ts rebar puncher can be hard to aim for line-up shots at times too, but it travels extremely fast and also has a much shorter cooldown, giving you way more leniency and missing isn't punished nearly as much. FMJ might also do slightly too little damage? might not actually be an issue.

- Roll not giving iframes sucks. I get that it giving iframes in the first game was a compromise because you can't really dodge in 2d, but holy crap his roll feels awful to use without them. Huntress's blink still grants effective invincibility because it's a teleport, and the merc's dash is a combat attack rather than a dodge (and eviscerate still grants invincibility anyway). Maybe a compromise could be to only have it give iframes at the very start of the roll?

- Suppressive fire feels super weak. Part of this is what the devs mentioned, but seems really weak in combat too. it deals decent damage but Commando has severe damage dropoff which means you likely won't actually deal that 600% damage unless you're right up on an enemy.

[jacobellinger]

Originally posted by Ham:

Originally posted by krayfish:

i wouldn't say he is bad, but he definitely relies more on items than any other character. i've attempted itemless runs and he struggles more than any one else by a long shot

ALL survivors rely on items, they ALL completely rely on items, you will not get very far with no items with any survivor.

there are many item builds that will work very well with commando, maybe you just had some bad luck and did not find anything good?

if I could get a tesla early on I could see it going a good run /s but in my 8 hours or so trying on monsoon I had a run where I got three stim shots or whatever they are called but nothing too specail. one problem is the golden chest never gave me anything good, meat hook, and ice blast or whatever and that was the only too times I made it that far so no golden chest otherwise. the lunar shop never gave me shaped glass oh and a few times i opened lunar buds i got effigy of greaf...

[shrimping]

Originally posted by Ham:

Originally posted by krayfish:

i wouldn't say he is bad, but he definitely relies more on items than any other character. i've attempted itemless runs and he struggles more than any one else by a long shot

ALL survivors rely on items, they ALL completely rely on items, you will not get very far with no items with any survivor.

there are many item builds that will work very well with commando, maybe you just had some bad luck and did not find anything good?

i understand that commando is very very strong with items(he's the one i've made it the farthest with in game with items). but what i was saying was that he relies on them more than any other character in the game to get far.

[Teacyn]

Actually I was checking out the mods and it seems someone has had my idea for the commando roll already.
https://thunderstore.io/package/Wordam/IDodge/

He's invincible for the first 0.3s of the roll. I think this could be a good compromise.

[Sotanaht]

Might be decent, but with how weak he is already and the general flow of the game, I think just making the roll (and teleport) outright invincible for the entire animation is probably the best way to go.

[Kekskuchen]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1722538656

Commando is not weak xD i get so strong with him that the game stopping spawn enemys >.< so i decided to die xD