remove kjaro n runald bands please

[Rumi]

these items are simply too powerful, they can easily improve any build to the point of boringness as at the point of recieving these items every challenge is removed. they do massive amounts of damage and having both of them you essentially have a 16% chance to do atleast 250% of your base damage, which in combination with any items that increase attack speed like the syringe, or increase base proc chance like the 69 leaf clover massively throws the games balance off course since they active all the time, which melts enemies to shreds. to be honest even if you had no other items than the bands you could still wipe the floor with literally every monster in the game. they are a rather pointless and uncreative addition since they simply just give you a chance to do huge amounts of damage at only a 1/7 chance which is ridiculous. if it shouldn't be removed it should atleast be put as a red tier item because they honestly are that good.

[GWOP-W×TCH]

Originally posted by Rumi:

Originally posted by Vahnkiljoy:

Nope

good arguement

YO I FOUND ONE REALLY GOOD COMBINATION OUT OF A MILLION PLEASE REMOVE IT.

dumb.

[Rumi]

Originally posted by 40ozBOUNCE-imok-:

Originally posted by Rumi:

good arguement

YO I FOUND ONE REALLY GOOD COMBINATION OUT OF A MILLION PLEASE REMOVE IT.

dumb.

in history people are always quick to judge jeniuses as dumb at first, but then when they change the world... the people change their tune...

[Pvt.Joe]

This is starting to sound really tasty.

[Zeddy]

Originally posted by Rumi:

all other items are delay before they damage but the bands are instant, they are too troublesome

That's not true at all. The fire tornado lingers and deals damage over time and the other one is weaker than sticky bomb. Meanwhile ukulele is instant gratification on 6 enemies.

I'd pick most greens over the bands, which to me means it fits nicely where it is.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Rumi:

this is why the pve market is getting dominated by pvp games, pve devs always ruin the balance and drive away customers

This is the dumbest thing I've read all day.

I don't want to write a whole essay here on PvP vs PvE and how they work, just understand that they have pretty much nothing to do with each other. No one is picking up Kjaro's Band and saying "wow, this game suddenly got way too easy, I'm going to go play CS instead". Not to mention, RoR2 has already sold well and has no DLC or microtransactions, what customers are they driving away? Do you really think prospective buyers are going to be turned away because of Runald's Band?

[Zeddy]

I agree with the general sentiment that balance is important in pve games, but what needs to be balanced is mostly options.

If the game had Command, there'd be an issue with blatantly useless options like Medkit existing (because they're not actually an option), but you don't have a strong choice when it comes to items. Sometimes, your set of items give you a good runs, other times, they don't.

A more important thing to balance is survivors, and while they may not be perfect, they all play different enough from each other that they're fairly close to incomparable. Engineer may be blatantly easier to play than other classes, but he's not gonna' match the early-game firepower of Artificer and MUL-T. Commando may be blatantly weaker than anyone else, but his range and rapid fire means he'll eventually not suck. I question that from a game design decision considering for a while he's the only character available, but the balance is there.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Zeddy:

I agree with the general sentiment that balance is important in pve games, but what needs to be balanced is mostly options.

If the game had Command, there'd be an issue with blatantly useless options like Medkit existing (because they're not actually an option), but you don't have a strong choice when it comes to items. Sometimes, your set of items give you a good runs, other times, they don't.

A more important thing to balance is survivors, and while they may not be perfect, they all play different enough from each other that they're fairly close to incomparable. Engineer may be blatantly easier to play than other classes, but he's not gonna' match the early-game firepower of Artificer and MUL-T. Commando may be blatantly weaker than anyone else, but his range and rapid fire means he'll eventually not suck. I question that from a game design decision considering for a while he's the only character available, but the balance is there.

You're using the word "blatant" incorrectly. I don't consider Medkit to be useless, and why would less powerful items be a problem just because the Command artifact existed? Are you saying that the game's entire usage of RNG is a problem?

Engineer isn't "blatantly" easier than other classes, and Commando isn't "blatantly" weaker than other classes. I could respect it if this was just an opinion, but you're talking as if what you say is obvious and irrefutable.

[✨Hot Soup✨]

Originally posted by Vahnkiljoy:

Nope

[Fidgetwarrior]

*buff the monsters* increase the enemies scaling to compete with players scaling or maybe has a scaling that surpass players so we need these items

[Zeddy]

Originally posted by Netsa:

I could respect it if this was just an opinion, but you're talking as if what you say is obvious and irrefutable.

The RNG is not a problem, but without it there's no reason at all to pick medkit. Medkit heals 10 damage if you don't get hit for a while. Cautious slug and even shield generator are much stronger at this job. Would you honestly ever pick it if you were doing a playthrough using Command? Over tougher times, sticky bombs, combat syringes, goat hoofs, energy drinks, backup mags, or even fireworks? Even knowing that stacking it with corpsebloom and rejuvenation rack a single medkit heals 80 its a tough sell. Double the healing per kit, and I wouldn't mind getting it. Quadruple it and I might even pick one on purpose.

Commando is the weakest survivor in the start. You don't have to take my word for it, everyone has a calculator. If you wanna change my mind you can try getting below 3 minutes on a prismatic trial with him. I can have a chance to do it with any other survivor, but Commando I'm not sure I can beat even 4 minutes with the aid of a preon accumulator. Someone might be able to, but not me. Prismatic Trials are a good metric for early game viability, and Commando is the lowest of tiers there.

As for engineer, having an unbreakable shield and half your damage output being not only automatically aimed, but not even requiring you to be there makes him easier to play. You don't need to aim, you don't need to do worry about titan lasers, titan meteors, vagrant blasts, dunestrider bombs or wisp attacks. None of that is a particularly large advantage later in the game, but his skill floor of "just give the slightest of thought to when you place your shield and you'll be fine" makes him the easiest to get far with and unlock most challenges for a beginner. Even if that's not objective, you'd find this to be the result in a survey, meaning it's the case for most people. I say it with confidence and it's so obvious that I don't even believe that you don't believe me.

Medkit sucks. Commando has the lowest damage output. Engineer is easiest to play. This is all blatant. None of it is problematic.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Zeddy:

*shorten*

That means medkit is perfectly fine since RNG is a staple part of the game. You're not supposed to play the game without it, that's why Command is an artifact that needs to be unlocked and switched on; Command is a cheat. If I was able to just choose any item, I would skip roughly half the items in the game, and that can be said of any game with a randomized loot system. Why go with anything less than the best?

Okay then, give me the calculations on Commando. If you're basing your entire argument on Prismatic Trials, I feel like I should remind you that it isn't the main mode of the game and doesn't reflect real gameplay. No one skips straight to the teleporter, skipping nearly all loot, on the first stage in a real run. Saying Commando is weak because he can't kill a boss, naked, as fast as Artificer or MUL-T is just ridiculous and pretends the rest of the game doesn't exist.

Engineer falls off a cliff the instant his turrets start dying. He has a strong stationary game in a game where being stationary is actively punished. Early game, he has to deal with his turret cooldowns, since they can't follow him. Once the damage starts coming in, keeping in mind he can't keep his shield up permanently, what can he do while it's down? Try to hit something with his bad 1st and 2nd skills? No, run around and die, like a weaker version of Artificer. Frankly, I don't even think a survey would agree with you, since Huntress is all-around easier than he is. She never has to aim, she doesn't require any set-up, and she still scales perfectly well into late game, so there's no point in which you really rise above the skill floor.

[Renz]

So i've been browsing this thread for a couple days and finally decided to see what all the fuss was about over the bands. Although at one point i could swear the bands stacked proc chance, they dont and now i feel like an idiot albeit they do get stronger and are pretty common in most of my runs.

I decided to do a run with engineer for some dumb reason and just had a ball, stacked 10 kjaro's bands and a bunch of ukelele's/gasoline, I would say if anything needs a "nerf" that gasoline has a STUPID high explosive range given 10+ stacks and things just kinda melt :T. The bands really didn't do all that much other then proc more ukelele's/ATG and runald's band is a slightly stronger/weaker version of chronobauble, so i dont see what the deal with these bands is.

[Ivara Ara]

Originally posted by Zerac:

So i've been browsing this thread for a couple days and finally decided to see what all the fuss was about over the bands. Although at one point i could swear the bands stacked proc chance, they dont and now i feel like an idiot albeit they do get stronger and are pretty common in most of my runs.

I decided to do a run with engineer for some dumb reason and just had a ball, stacked 10 kjaro's bands and a bunch of ukelele's/gasoline, I would say if anything needs a "nerf" that gasoline has a STUPID high explosive range given 10+ stacks and things just kinda melt :T. The bands really didn't do all that much other then proc more ukelele's/ATG and runald's band is a slightly stronger/weaker version of chronobauble, so i dont see what the deal with these bands is.

Honestly the deal is the fact that OP has not felt how broken other items are.(looking at you gesture combined with anything, or a few daggers).

[Netsa]

I did the 20-stage challenge on Drizzle with a ton of gasoline cans. Killing one enemy would proc fire on what had to be the entire map. Together with some wisps, I was able to just sit back and watch my money counter roll up without my hands even being on the keyboard. The permanent *tick* sound got annoying, though.

[Ivara Ara]

Originally posted by Netsa:

I did the 20-stage challenge on Drizzle with a ton of gasoline cans. Killing one enemy would proc fire on what had to be the entire map. Together with some wisps, I was able to just sit back and watch my money counter roll up without my hands even being on the keyboard. The permanent *tick* sound got annoying, though.

IMO the most annoying sound is the bloody leaf, that just drives me insane.