remove kjaro n runald bands please

[Rumi]

these items are simply too powerful, they can easily improve any build to the point of boringness as at the point of recieving these items every challenge is removed. they do massive amounts of damage and having both of them you essentially have a 16% chance to do atleast 250% of your base damage, which in combination with any items that increase attack speed like the syringe, or increase base proc chance like the 69 leaf clover massively throws the games balance off course since they active all the time, which melts enemies to shreds. to be honest even if you had no other items than the bands you could still wipe the floor with literally every monster in the game. they are a rather pointless and uncreative addition since they simply just give you a chance to do huge amounts of damage at only a 1/7 chance which is ridiculous. if it shouldn't be removed it should atleast be put as a red tier item because they honestly are that good.

[BlueFenixR]

Welp basic attacks:

Comando: 90x2
Mul-T: 60% per nail (and initial 6x60%) or 600% per Rebar.
Huntress: 150%
Engineer: 2-8x100%
Artificer: 200% + Ignite (But its garbage anyway since cooldown so meh)
Mercenary: 2x130% + 300% for third hit.

Originally posted by Rumi:

yeah the cool downs are an important note because you can easily get more damage with the ... **and some attack speed items** than any cooldown can keep up with

... Basic Attack OP?!

Also, in my experience with enough spare magazines and/or alien heads your secondary attack can very well become your basic attack.

[Rumi]

Originally posted by BlueFenixR:

Welp basic attacks:

Comando: 90x2
Mul-T: 60% per nail (and initial 6x60%) or 600% per Rebar.
Huntress: 150%
Engineer: 2-8x100%
Artificer: 200% + Ignite (But its garbage anyway since cooldown so meh)
Mercenary: 2x130% + 300% for third hit.

Originally posted by Rumi:

yeah the cool downs are an important note because you can easily get more damage with the ... and some attack speed items than any cooldown can keep up with

... Basic Attack OP?!

no? you can easily test it yourself, try attacking enemies with and without the bands an you'll see the bands provide massive damage compared to the basic attacks

[BlueFenixR]

8% chance to hit? badly assuming 1 proc every 7 attacks multiply the basic attack by 7. Fast attacks like Mul-T basic one have reduced chance to proc items by design btw.

[Thqwib]

But if they remove it, I won't be able to tell my friends "Hey, who wants Runald McDunald's?"

On a serious note, the bands are pretty good, but not game-breaking in my Monsoon experience. You never said what difficulty you play, OP. I expect they'll fall in line with other items as more are added and the overall balance is tweaked more. I personally think the enemies could use buffs instead of nerfing items, but again that's just the way the game is right now, unbalanced Early Access.

Originally posted by Rumi:

they are a rather uncreative addition

Uncreative? We did home invasion on a married couple, murdered them, and stole their magical wedding bands to fuel our killing spree. Until the logbooks are totally finished, the bands are some of the most fleshed out items.

[Rayquaza608]

As Robert Cop put it they are kinda the most fleshed out items we have, they picked a theme and stuck to it, a marriage of ice and fire that is ingrained even in their function as I believe they always proc together.
As far as balance goes compared to other items, if we go by cauldron exchange rates, I would rather have 3 sticky bombs than 1 of the rings, though I would probably trade 5 rings for a red.

[Netsa]

If we're removing things because they're too powerful, I would delete 3D printers first.

[Zeddy]

Game wouldn't have many items left if you remove every powerful one. Notice how the bands were just one ingredient in your supposed OP cocktail, you had to involve combat syringes and 57 Leaf Clover as well.

You say you don't need any other items, but I say show me the video proving it. Loop twice on Monsoon picking up nothing but bands.

[Cacomistle]

You're after the wrong items. Missle does 300 percent with a 10 percent, and can proc other items. Uke is a 25 percent chance of 240 when 3 enemies are close, and also procs other items (not full proc, but hits 3 enemies). Will o wisp not only scales ridiculously (technically n^4 scaling since it increases in damage and 3 dimensions, but in practice height doesn't matter and its limited by enemies on the map). Again, procs other items.

Bands can't carry the game by themselves. They need attack speed and items that proc other items. It looks like they're a lot of your damage, but that's because you just didn't notice that they're proccing 3x as often as your attack speed from all the other random ♥♥♥♥ you have. That makes them look like most of your damage, but your other items are that 3x damage multiplier.

Without bands, well missles still have quite good damage and stickies turn broken after enough. Wouldn't be much of a difference. If instead you made items unable to proc other items and stickies not scale quadratically, that would nerf on hit far harder than nerfing bands.

Let me just put it this way. Each band after the first is an 8 percent chance of 125 or 250 percent damage. At most a 20 percent increase in damage per attack. You'll notice characters scale far far harder than that. A second missle after the first is 300*.1 or 30% damage per attack, but then missles cause procs so its more like 33.333 (I'm not sure if it can proc itself, but assuming it can that would be it without even having other items). Its when you pick up multiple items that proc other items your build is stupid (or clover)

[InstableMonster]

Or you know, dont pick up an item you deem too powerful. Ask for an artifact to restrict the drop pool to selected items.

[Ivara Ara]

So you want to remove items that are good, but not game breaking, while leaving in things like gesture and god knows what. Ok then.

[Netsa]

So many gamebreaking things in this game that don't rely nearly as much on RNG. Makes RoR1 look like the literal Hell.

[Rain]

Originally posted by Ruben T:

So you want to remove items that are good, but not game breaking, while leaving in things like gesture and god knows what. Ok then.

Ruben has a point, and i've played with gestures of the drowned, stack about 8 of them with some fuel cells and a royal capacitor and you can just look at things and they die, to make it further op stack soulbound catalyst and shaped glass to just annihilate any and everything. enough damage to one shot the bazaar's newt and shred aurelionite when he has 100m health like a regular enemy. the bands have their story and reason for being there, even if some people dont yet know the story. regardless, the bands are hardly needing to be removed.

[Cacomistle]

Originally posted by Rumi:

Originally posted by BlahBlah:

The double healing red does enable tanky regen builds though, although that's obviously a really niche thing to happen and you really need to run into a 3d printer for regen items or a few titanic knurls to capitalize on it. Otherwise the only one who notices a big difference is engineer. Still, it allows something while the bands are just regular damage items.

Playing around with the command artifact mod and going for the antlers and some knurls/medkits is an unkillable build.

yeah and neither of those are as overpowered as getting one or more of each band, the amount of damage that they do for how often they happen transforms every build into and op build. it's like picking up the explosive attack red, they do nearly the same amount of damage if you think about it, with every 7th attack giving you 250% or 500% damage it's comparable to 7 60% damages. they honestly deserve red rank.

.08*500 for first kjaros assuming it hits full duration (often doesn't). 40% dps increase max. Each one after the first is then 20 percent damage per attack, or for runalds 20 percent first and 10 percent after.

If you picked up 11 kjaros, 8 percent chance of 3000. Sounds nice, but 11 stickies (a white item) is 25 percent chance of 1500. Making stickies about 1.5 times the damage per sticky.

So we all know stickies are op in large numbers, but what about first item. Tri tip dagger does 15*240, or 36 percent damage for 1 dagger, more than a runalds and at 2 daggers its outdamaging 2 kjaros too. It works off base damage which makes it worse scaling with high damage attacks, but as I've mentioned in a post above if we consider more complicated cases bands look pathetic compared to missles, and ukelele (making them probably the worst on hit greens).

Kjaro and runalds both offer good damage in a single item. But they don't really scale that well. Its just on hit items that are strong. But these are probably the second weakest options after dagger (and even then dagger is a white item so its arguably better for its tier).

Think of it this way. Its 3 whites for 1 green at the store. 3 stickies, an item that scales quadratically instead of linearly like all the other on hits, is 10 percent chance of 500. Kjaros is 8 percent for the same damage. Your claim that these items are too strong is not even slightly bakced up by the math when compared to similar items.

In short, there's a legitimate claim for on hit procs being too powerful. I don't know why you focused on probably the weakest ones (other than dagger). And honestly imo they're the most visually interesting.

Oh and if you had no attack speed multiplying their damage, no clovers adding almost double dps, and no missles/uke/wisp/meathook proccing them, you'd realize how non broken these items are. Go pick up 39 stickies instead, that actually doesn't need supporting items.

[Dog]

2 separate 8% chances does not equal a 16% chance per attack. Besides that, they items are not op.

[emel]

its a pve game