Give us the recycler

[Ashkhân]

Would work like 3D printer, but instead, the recycler tells you which item you will lose, but not which one you will get.
When you have 70% good items and 30% bad ones, you're not going to use a 3D printer, and so, you can't get rid of bad items. Recycler would fix that, allowing the player to have more control of the run, instead of watching passively what happens.
A little less RNG would feel good.

[Xilo The Odd]

i wouldnt minds something like this. but, there has to be a price, it cant just be oh i lose this ♥♥♥♥♥♥ item and get something i may actually want. it has to be something like, oh i'll lose two items, but i'll get a new one, possibly of a higher rarity tier.

that way a white one could drop greens and a green one could yield reds on rare occasion. ultimately you could end up printing all your items away of a given tier till you got 1 left overall having less items but rarer ones. also time passed would boost the difficulty so the amount of times you'd use it would be balanced out there as well.

[Boboscus]

The game is about RNG, why would they implement something that always goes in your favor?

[TrueEvil]

There would have to be some sort of limitation on this. If I have a monster tooth and I want a syringe, and I get an energy drink, I could keep putting it back in the recycler until I get a syringe.

[Boksha]

The problem with this idea is that indeed, unlike 3-D printers, the end result will always be in your favour. Say you encounter a Medkit or Monster Tooth recycler. In what situation exactly would you ever not just dump all your Medkits or Monster Teeth into that thing? It's literally free potentially good items at no cost other than the time you spend walking to the recycler and waiting for it to poop out your item.

Don't get me wrong, less luck and more depth is good, but sadly it seems this game as it is is basically just pure luck (when it comes to items), and the idea of a reverse 3-D printer, although it would reduce the amount of luck involved a bit (you'd still need to encounter a recycler of the right item), would not actually increase the game's depth much at all (other than requiring people to identify pointless items, and that's not particularly hard at all)

Actually, after thinking about it for a bit: what if instead of having a single item that it takes, the recycler accepts 3 types of item and if you have 2 or all 3 of them, it picks one of the items at random? That way, at least you'll have to consider whether a chance to replace your useless items with something useful is worth losing one of the other two potentially useful items. That seems to fit both the game's current RNG-dependence theme and still add a little more depth than just a "change trash to gold" machine. You could also get really lucky and find a recycler that only accepts useless items...

[Russ Rockjaw]

this is essentially what the shrine of order does. Only wusses pass on have 150 soldier syringes...possibly

[Ashkhân]

Well, about the depth of the game, they intend to add artifacts... "coming soon"...
I feel any solution to lower RNG would keep me interested in the game.
I'm at the point where I wonder if it's worth playing over and over until I get that 1 out 1000000000 chance to get the perfect build without which the game becomes unplayable after one hour (maybe two, I just started playing monsoon, there's room for improvement).
A feeling close to "reaching lvl max in Diablo1 will take me.... 200 hours of being bored. Life is too short.
Well balanced items would work too.
And about those 150 soldier syringes, no movement speed, no topaz brooch, right ? Good luck with the elder lemurian spawning behind you^^

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Russ Rockjaw:

this is essentially what the shrine of order does.

Errrr? How is OP's suggestion even remotely 'essentially' the same? It's almost the opposite...

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Ashkhân:

I'm at the point where I wonder if it's worth playing over and over until I get that 1 out 1000000000 chance to get the perfect build without which the game becomes unplayable after one hour (maybe two, I just started playing monsoon, there's room for improvement).
A feeling close to "reaching lvl max in Diablo1 will take me.... 200 hours of being bored. Life is too short.

I feel you. Maybe it's not worth it? Might be a good idea to take a break from the game for a while until more content comes out. That's basically what I'm doing now.

I think something like a recycler is a cool idea, but it might not be what the developers are aiming for with the game. If I were developing this game, the RNG would have a massively different (read: smaller) role to begin with and there would be a ton more choices for the player, but from what I heard of RoR1, that wasn't really the case there either.

[Ashkhân]

Yeah. It's sad because I think the gameplay of RoR2 is amazing.
- Choosing the best path to scout the map and loot it efficiently, with parcour involved (I usually hate that in other games) memorizing the interactables you need to go back to...
- Adapting your style to the build you currently have
- Dodging attacks while positionning to get the best out of your character skills, staying close to some cover, keeping in mind your way out (just in case :D)...
♥♥♥♥ ! I'm so addicted^^ Didn't get that adrenaline since Unreal Tournament
I'm left to hope that they will lower the RNG aspect in order to attract more players
Maybe I should focus on Prismatic trials.

[GIRL]

I like this idea. But like many have said, it's too beneficial.

How about they add it, but you can only use it a limited number of times, say 5 times?

That would make it so it's still beneficial, but not enough to break your run.

[Ashkhân]

Originally posted by Captain OwO:

How about they add it, but you can only use it a limited number of times, say 5 times?

Yes, good idea, that should do it.

But would the recycler be that OP ? You don't know what you will get. It's pretty equivalent when you think about it :
- A soldier's syringe 3D printer is OP and should be abused. A warbanner recycler would be OP and abused as well (keeping one ? if playing engineer ?).
- Old guillotine and topaz brooch 3D printer can take your crits away. A leeching seed recycler could give you chronobauble.
- Maybe you would get rid of your fifth or seventh cautious slug, feeling that you don't really need it, and you get your fourth rusted key...
Those examples are not perfect, playstyle and personnal preferences involved, but you get the idea.
Maybe it's more scary too lose a good item from 3D printer than getting crap from recycling. It's a scientific fact that we all are more afraid to lose what we already have than we are to not get what we could, even when mathematical expectation advises us otherwise.

Anyway, I think that the dev will have to make the items more balanced. 3D printer and this "recycler" should be use to choose between different viable combos, not just to replace bad items by better ones.

[Apanatchanka]

I like the idea

[Nitro Toxico]

Recycling items for better loot would be a nice idea, But why not just have them focus on white items to only be recycled into better items. Having a recycler doing that to any type of item would be a bit to much in my opinnion. Ofc that would mean it would sit in the dust for a long time, untill somone want his white items removed for better teir items.

The point of the 3D Printers is to be able to get new or more of certan items, with the risk of losing items you want to keep (Obviously). So a recycler would have the same function, just that it would exchange items for a higher tier, but with a risk of losing items you wanted to keep.

I get the idea is to be able to dump items you dont want for better items. But since they want to give the feel of being at risk of losing good stuff, you wont expect a "Select a item, and you get that" feel in the game. That would just be pointless and not fun in the long run.

[Ashkhân]

Originally posted by Dr.Nitro☢Toxic:

The point of the 3D Printers is to be able to get new or more of certan items, with the risk of losing items you want to keep (Obviously). So a recycler would have the same function, just that it would exchange items for a higher tier, but with a risk of losing items you wanted to keep.

So, 1 random white -> 1 random green ? Well, it's really close to the bazaar's offer : for 3 random white, you get one non-random green (you probably paid 1 lunar, though). Green items being in average much better than white ones, I don't see that happen.

I get that 3D printer puts you at risk of losing a combo. For exemple attack speed at the cost of crits, while you have Harvester's Scythe and Predatory Instincts can really weaken your build. You don't have that risk with the recycler as I imagine it.
So yeah, maybe OP*. Captain OwO had an idea : let's cap it to 5 uses. I think that's great.

But getting a good recycler would already be random, and having to deal with a non-optimal build for a few stages would stay in the game. Could that be enough RNG ?

Or maybe I got it all wrong, I would like Ror2 to be kind of an FPS hack&slash, and I'm sure tons of players would love it, but that may not be what the developers have in mind.

* : Talking about OP stuff, I just experienced today the gesture/royal capacitor combo on monsoon. It ended up at stage 42 with the happiest mask's bug (ghosts attacking you). Which drew me to these conclusions :
THAT is too OP to be fun.
The game still needs fixing.
:D

[Boksha]

Originally posted by Ashkhân:

I get that 3D printer puts you at risk of losing a combo. For exemple attack speed at the cost of crits, while you have Harvester's Scythe and Predatory Instincts can really weaken your build. You don't have that risk with the recycler as I imagine it.
So yeah, maybe OP*. Captain OwO had an idea : let's cap it to 5 uses. I think that's great.

Limiting its uses doesn't actually fix the no-risk problem at all. A recycler for a crappy item would still unconditionally be a high chance of improving your build at no risk of ever losing anything of value. It's just that if you have 7 Monster Teeth and find a Monster Tooth recycler, you can now only get rid of 5 of them but you'll still always use it 5 times (and if you only had 4, you can still just scrap all of them and potentially get 4 good items back for it).

You can't fix it by limiting its uses because the issue isn't that it's "too good" to begin with; it's that the player never really has to think about whether they want to use the recycler or not.

Even balancing the items out wouldn't really fix that; although there would be some condition to it now, it's still really easy to see whether an item is worth getting rid of or not; e.g. the Artificer would still be scrapping as many rate-of-fire items as possible; if you have good healing and crappy damage, you'd still be scrapping some healing items. It's still a very easy choice to make.

Unless you make the choice harder, it'll not really add any depth to the game other than making the chance of getting a good build a bit better.