Skills 2.0 - Good or Bad?

[TrueEvil]

I'm seeing a lot of mixed feelings here on the Discussions. I'd like to see where the majority lies.

https://www.strawpoll.me/18657350

I do not like this update. Here's why:

-I disagree with requiring challenges in order to unlock the new skills.
-Many of the skills are essentially rehashed versions of the original ones.
-Many of the skills are not good.
-I feel that some of the challenges are too hard.
-Health regeneration felt abysmal to me already- and now it is only 40% of what it was before. This is exacerbated by the fact that items such as monster tooth and medkit still scale miserably.
-This update did not address many of the issues with certain items. For example, items such as Happiest Mask and Frost Relic are arguably less useful than many Common items, despite the fact that they are Rare.
-I do not think that Artificer should receive nearly no benefit from increased attack speed. I hoped that this update would increase the effectiveness of her Special ability, like they did with Commando (thanks to Hopoo for changing Commando's Special though, I did want to see that too)
-The unlockable colors of several survivors are eyesores.

However, I do really like the new environment and the new items. I think they're great.

[Velderuum]

Update is fine - breaks the meta, some challenges do need to be reworked/made slightly easier.

But challenges should remain - Ror1 had them - ror2 should continue them, because challenges keep the game driving not everyone will like them, but i love achievements/challenges/lore

[NeloDante]

The new content is good and welcomed: nice new area, alright new boss, nice new enemies and elites, nice gameplay changes in some characters...
The way the content is gatekeeped is not good however, skills change gameplay by a lot thus the challenges required to do them should be something simple that everyone can do so they can enjoy their time playing the game like "kill 10 bosses" or similar.

Noone cares that you did X challenge that is hard to do (which most if not ALL are luck based instead of skill based), if the devs feel that they have to put absurd challenges to please certain kind of people so they have such carrots to chase while slamming their heads in then a skin would definetly do for bragging rights but not something that changes how characters work.

Spending hours grinding (basically working) to do something absurd just to unlock a skill to see if you now like the character is absurd, it gets even worse when what you unlock is not worth it - it upsets the fanbase. If you want to put a carrot to chase, you actually put a carrot, not a slap in the face. If the way to unlock such things were simple noone would have complained, so the proper answer is editing a text file.

Originally posted by TrustfulPlayer:

It seems like the huntress, loader, and rex got huge buffs with little downsides.

Huntress new Shift skill is bad actually, it has no vertical mobility, it's three short dashes (shorter than Commando's roll) in a straight line.

[Gyan Rosling]

I disagree with requiring challenges in order to unlock the new skills.

Yeah let's remove all challenges for items too while we're at it.

These are NOT MEANT TO BE COMPLETED IN A DAY.

Many of the skills are essentially rehashed versions of the original ones.

Did you seriously expect devs to put in the effort to create 4 TOTALLY new skills that could be better off put into a new character design???

They're absolutely 100% fine. Maybe balance changes are required but that ♥♥♥♥ is easy and most likely changed in the next update.

Many of the skills are not good.

the update has been out for ONE DAY how would you possibly know that? There is no way even if you stayed up the whole day/night playing the game that you completed a full run with each new skill. Maybe the skills have some nuance/strat that you're missing?

It's probably better that the skills are worse then default ones, or harder (requires more skill) to use. This allows players to play a more challenging run with these skills.

Sure some can be very slightly better for those who struggle to use the character. I don't mind one or two of these.

Health regeneration felt abysmal to me already- and now it is only 40% of what it was before. This is exacerbated by the fact that items such as monster tooth and medkit still scale miserably.

Play on drizzle then, if the game is too hard for you. Drizzle has normal regen.

For example, items such as Happiest Mask and Frost Relic are arguably less useful than many Common items, despite the fact that they are Rare.

Those are some very random examples but okay. I'd say Aegis, H3AD-5T and WoV are more in need of buff.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Nasty Peep:

I like the changes. The skills are not meant to be better, far as I can tell, just different. Something to keep things from being too stale, and mix up the possible strategies and synergies you can put together. Obviously not everyone will love each skill, just as not everyone loves all the vanilla skills. Not every skill is going to be perfect for you.

The challenges required to unlock skills feels true to the Risk of Rain series, reminds me of the first game, in a great way.

Remember, if the challenges are too hard for you, you can always play on :drizzle:

Loader's alternate secondary is straight up better than the default. It's also not a matter of loving the skills or not, some of them are just plain bad. The challenges shouldn't be a chore either, there's a difference between being difficult and just being a grind/luck fest.

[Nasty Peep]

Originally posted by Omega:

Loader's alternate secondary is straight up better than the default. It's also not a matter of loving the skills or not, some of them are just plain bad. The challenges shouldn't be a chore either, there's a difference between being difficult and just being a grind/luck fest.

Okay? I don't know if it is or not, but based on all the skills I have gotten, I haven't seen a very clear: "This one is better". Maybe the new loader skill needs a nerf, I have no idea (haven't gone after it yet), but it's pretty clear to me that skills are generally meant to be alternatives, not flat improvements.

It also seems to me that the intention, generally, is to encourage you to play more, unlocking content along the way. If someone cares enough about a specific class and specific skill, they're going to get it, even if they have to play on drizzle.

I'm not debating whether or not it's a grind/luck fest, and if it is, I really don't mind it. It gives me a reason to hop into the game with my friends and keep pushing for a new run. If I could unlock if all in one sitting, I'd be extremely disappointed.

[Omega]

Originally posted by Nasty Peep:

Originally posted by Omega:

Loader's alternate secondary is straight up better than the default. It's also not a matter of loving the skills or not, some of them are just plain bad. The challenges shouldn't be a chore either, there's a difference between being difficult and just being a grind/luck fest.

Okay? I don't know if it is or not, but based on all the skills I have gotten, I haven't seen a very clear: "This one is better". Maybe the new loader skill needs a nerf, I have no idea (haven't gone after it yet), but it's pretty clear to me that skills are generally meant to be alternatives, not flat improvements.

It also seems to me that the intention, generally, is to encourage you to play more, unlocking content along the way. If someone cares enough about a specific class and specific skill, they're going to get it, even if they have to play on drizzle.

I'm not debating whether or not it's a grind/luck fest, and if it is, I really don't mind it. It gives me a reason to hop into the game with my friends and keep pushing for a new run. If I could unlock if all in one sitting, I'd be extremely disappointed.

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative or combative at all if it comes off that way. My point is more that I feel this aspect of the update could use some more work which is fine considering this is an early access game, it's (ideally) available to us so we can give feedback and what not. I haven't minded any of the challenges in this game except for the new Mercenary one, it just doesn't sound fun at all. I don't mind grinding or trying to get lucky as long as it's fun but that one just sounds like a chore.

Loader's skill is the only one I would consider to be better, the others are actually alternates though I do feel some are bad and need adjustments which again is fine because early access. And just to clear it up, Loader's alternate does damage while the default doesn't. They have the exact same cooldown and range, but the alternate pulls lightweight enemies to you which I feel is far more useful than the default. You can still use it on the terrain as well which I wasn't expecting, I thought that would be the trade off for it but nope.

I'm not disappointed in this update at all though, Loader is a lot of fun and the new area is pretty cool. I just feel Skills 2.0 needs some adjustments but again, early access.

[Therio]

The mercenary challenge is by far the worst challenge the game has to offer. Tying unlocks to a mode where, if the current run sucks (it does) it makes you wait three days to reroll into a run that hopefully maybe has an item that helps enable it and doesn't put you into 2 wisp spawn stages is extremely awful. They legitimately just shouldn't tie unlocks to primatic trials. Not to mention that every time you fail you have to sit through four menus + loading times for another attempt.

Cool update otherwise, not many complaints here. Really appreciate guillotine to green.

[skinnygorilla]

I'll never find out if they keep making the game harder lol

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

I disagree with requiring challenges in order to unlock the new skills.

Yeah let's remove all challenges for items too while we're at it.

The point of the update was to give players a reason to try out a new survivor again. I fail to see how making a player grind their least favorite survivor for 5 hours to get an ability that they may or may not like is going to accomplish this.

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

Many of the skills are essentially rehashed versions of the original ones.

Did you seriously expect devs to put in the effort to create 4 TOTALLY new skills that could be better off put into a new character design???They're absolutely 100% fine. Maybe balance changes are required but that ♥♥♥♥ is easy and most likely changed in the next update.

Yeah, I did. You mean to tell me that you can't think of any abilities that would fit in line with a character's style? But okay, recycling Fire Bolt and nerfing it into the ground is fine too.

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

Many of the skills are not good.

the update has been out for ONE DAY how would you possibly know that? There is no way even if you stayed up the whole day/night playing the game that you completed a full run with each new skill. Maybe the skills have some nuance/strat that you're missing?

It's probably better that the skills are worse then default ones, or harder (requires more skill) to use. This allows players to play a more challenging run with these skills.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that things like Plasma Bolt, Ion Surge, and those weird walking Engineer turrets are bad. The Plasma Bolt loses fire rate and DoT (and any form of good firing sound whatsoever) for AoE damage that the Fire Bolt had to begin with.

The Ion Surge is more of a Utility skill than a Special ability, and if anything, it absolutely doesn't fit with Artificer's playstyle. It is an abysmally weak skill, with an 8 second cooldown, and trying to use it in conjunction with the rest of her long cooldowns means you'll have no attacks ready for half the time you're playing.

And as for the turrets? They follow you and walk around. Their damage is probably fine, sure, but say goodbye to your fungus, which is the only thing helping turrets in the late game.

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

Health regeneration felt abysmal to me already- and now it is only 40% of what it was before. This is exacerbated by the fact that items such as monster tooth and medkit still scale miserably.

Play on drizzle then, if the game is too hard for you. Drizzle has normal regen.

Okay so let's get this straight...
I can either choose to play the game on hella easy mode, where the difficulty scales half as fast as "normal", my regen is reasonable, I start with more health, and get +20 armor...
Or I can play the mode that's "a step up" in which the game scales twice as fast, you regen less than 1 HP/s at Level 1, I start with less health, and get none of the armor.

Now, I don't mind having differences between the two. But to be honest? The gap between the two is way too far. I wasmostly okay with the previous state, but with the health regen? No way.

Playing Drizzle becomes mind-numbingly boring too quickly, but Rainstorm almost too much for me to manage after a few loops.

Why not drop the Rainstorm regen to 70% of Drizzle's? Perfectly between 40 and 100.

Originally posted by Ben Shapiro:

For example, items such as Happiest Mask and Frost Relic are arguably less useful than many Common items, despite the fact that they are Rare.

Those are some very random examples but okay. I'd say Aegis, H3AD-5T and WoV are more in need of buff.

Those need changes too, and Aegis did get one. Even though it's still not good.

[Mia Ishata]

My only issue with the update i have myself is that one Engineer challenge where you need to kill a teleporter boss in 5 seconds, i did it with friends and alone. We even killed the boss REALLY fast and we thoughed we had at one point but it didnt work. Either you have to be extremly lucky for that one or actually predict the boss spawn super well for your landmines to tick good damage.