Is there a "good" ending to this game?

[Whitebeard]

I have played through three times, in different ways, and I don't think there is a good or "right" sort of ending. There is a lot of talk about an "AI singularity" which has nothing to do with the Human / AI hybrid which is at the center of the story. The best seeming ending is the two women heading down the road to a sanctuary of some sort. All I can think of when I see that, with apologies to W. B. Yeats, is "What rough beast, its hour come at last, slouches toward Bethlehem?" The other endings are mundane.

[Samuel Varg]

i ended the AI and adopted the child. Thought that was kinda good ending.

[Whitebeard]

Except you had to adopt the child because the mother would have nothing to do with it. She doesn't want it if it hasn't been modified. Adopting the child is good for the child, but not a good ending to the story. The real mother doesn't even want the child as a remembrance of the father, it is only useful to her if she believes she is raising a god.

[Samuel Varg]

It all depends on how you play it as a character I guess. In my game I played Vera as wanting a child her self. You can pick that as an option at least once in conversation. Her getting a child in the end, is imho, a good ending.

[Whitebeard]

You are correct about Vera and the child, if you play it that way. Which I guess is the point: Whatever makes you happy. I am just saying there is no ending that ties up all the loose ends and satisfies everyone. It could be argued that is how it works in real life: nothing is "perfect". You make your choices and learn to live with them. I guess in computer games, I like a more "perfect" conclusion. Because I live a less than perfect life, I guess I want more from my games.

[Samuel Varg]

Exactly my point.

I just did another play through of WoaM and this time I played a more hard boiled Vera that sympathised with The Conduit. She uploaded HULDRA to the child and took it and it's mother to vreate their AI god.
That is also a good ending. From a certain point of view.

Stay strong man. If things aren't good. It's not the end.

[Whitebeard]

Except, in this case, you are an outlaw and terrorist by definition. You also may have created a monster. "A god made in their own image, instead of the other way around", to quote the EPOS preacher.

The AI god is supposed to be energized with the power of a singularity. I don't know how to get power from a singularity, and if housed in a human body, it would be so small it would quickly dissipate it's supposed energy or consume the host. Actually, singularities are a theory and may not exist anywhere in the universe. Black Holes are not singularities, they are physical objects. If the universe lasted long enough all the black holes would evaporate from Hawking radiation.

In the story, as I understand it, The singularity powered AI is the goal, and the child is the first step toward the goal as a human/AI hybrid. The plot is somewhat confused on this issue.

I have been through 4 times, but haven't gotten the Amnesia aug yet. Due to circumstances, it may be a while before I get back to it.

[Faravid]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences, virtualbill! We'll refrain from confirming or dismissing any theories :) Hearing that you've been through the game 4 times is both thrilling and a bit scary - I just hope you don't hate it by now :)

[Whitebeard]

Ended up with six play throughs. Had some time on my hands suddenly so I went after the 100% achievements. I was stuck thinking I needed the Museophile achievement, but turned out the hangup was coffee on the last day. Kept missing it with all that was going on.

I do have a comment about dialog. Maja tells Melinda that sarcasm does not befit her, It might sound more natural for english speakers if it was "doesn't suit you". However, Kristina/ Melinda is sarcastic and it exactly suits her.

[Kilrathi lord]

I also got the ending where I adopted the child, it seemed to me the most logical ending. The one thing I really appreciated about this game is how it handles religion and technology. Most sc fi games treat religion and religious people like the black plague and use them as terrorist. I thought at first that is the path this game was going down which would have been trope city. Glad they didnt go that route. I thought the pastor of the church made some really good points, and Im not even religious myself.

[Whitebeard]

I know what you mean. I consider science to be a faith based belief system, and therefore a religion. Although, semantically, that kind of belief is called Scientism, One of the plagues of our time. And of the game. In this game, there is a fine line between all these factions and it is presented very well. The EPOS pastor made some of the strongest arguments in the game. The Conduit was less convincing. After reading the history in the museum, I found myself opposed to the unrealistic notions they presented.

[Kilrathi lord]

we see eye to eye there, the thing I wish that was explored more is how and why in a society where AI and technology is greatly feared superhuman cops are allowed to exist. I know the museum goes into it a little bit but I wish it was talked about more.

Also I have only done one playthrough, does other playthroughs give more context to the main "antagonist". I fee like we get the main motives of EPOS and the Conduit very well, yet the murderer not so much, that is my only real gripe with the game that the last day seems rushed.

one last thing ]Did you also get the feeling that Valter's robot does have an AI and the talking dummy thing is rouse. I kept think Valter was going to have more to do with the plot than he did.

[Whitebeard]

I think Valter is what he seems: A harmless clown popular with the young. The business with the enhanced agents is a current debate in their world as a result of interpretations of two of the amendments to the Third Decree. If you do a few more run throughs with different dialog selections you can learn a little more, but not much. I think that was deliberate. They want the player to accept their world on its own terms and deal with the problems in a way consistent with the story presented. It simplifies the game by giving just enough detail to be believeable, but doesn't get bogged down trying to explain everything,

I think I am with you on adopting the child as the best ending. She and the child are both blue enhanced, and that makes her the logical choice.

To me, the scariest statement in the whole game is when you click on the globe in the museum. She says, " This must be from before the Collapse. There is no crack from the hyperloop failure, and the crater field is not visible". I don't know what all that means, but it can't be good.

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Samuel Varg:

Exactly my point.

I just did another play through of WoaM and this time I played a more hard boiled Vera that sympathised with The Conduit. She uploaded HULDRA to the child and took it and it's mother to vreate their AI god.
That is also a good ending. From a certain point of view.

Stay strong man. If things aren't good. It's not the end.

I think the HULDRA ending kind of undermines itself.

The question of "Should humanity try to make an AI God?" is an interesting one, in the abstract at least. And Katarina and the priest guy both get to make an argument for or against.

Unfortunately, the game's argument for downloading the AI into the baby is "Do you want to get your really creepy, really insistent boyfriend back from the dead?" Which is like... no. No. Everybody else is arguing about whether an AI God would be good or bad, so why is the main character's 'motivation' when she's pro-AI God so... Frankensteinian?

I mean, at no point does Vera get to tell her dead boyfriend that she's not interested in necromancy, she just thinks AI is a good idea, actually.

And so the HULDRA ending isn't about AI Good/Bad, but about... well... raising the dead. The bland, creepy, untrustworthy dead.

[Whitebeard]

Vera says, at the end if you activate Fenrir, that if he could be returned, it wouldn't be him but some facsimile of him. It isn't really him anyway but a projection of her own mind because of The Blue. She is talking to herself and realizes, as you say, it is creepy and must stop. I think the idea of a constructed god is about as creepy as it gets. It is one thing to try and develop an AI super intelligence, and quite another to call it a god. The EPOS preacher called the Collapse the "great flood of our time". If so, the the AI god is the golden calf created by the Hebrews while Moses was on the mount. Tired of waiting, they constructed a god to save them. Retribution followed.

[Kilrathi lord]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis:

Originally posted by Samuel Varg:

Exactly my point.

I just did another play through of WoaM and this time I played a more hard boiled Vera that sympathised with The Conduit. She uploaded HULDRA to the child and took it and it's mother to vreate their AI god.
That is also a good ending. From a certain point of view.

Stay strong man. If things aren't good. It's not the end.

I think the HULDRA ending kind of undermines itself.

The question of "Should humanity try to make an AI God?" is an interesting one, in the abstract at least. And Katarina and the priest guy both get to make an argument for or against.

Unfortunately, the game's argument for downloading the AI into the baby is "Do you want to get your really creepy, really insistent boyfriend back from the dead?" Which is like... no. No. Everybody else is arguing about whether an AI God would be good or bad, so why is the main character's 'motivation' when she's pro-AI God so... Frankensteinian?

I mean, at no point does Vera get to tell her dead boyfriend that she's not interested in necromancy, she just thinks AI is a good idea, actually.

And so the HULDRA ending isn't about AI Good/Bad, but about... well... raising the dead. The bland, creepy, untrustworthy dead.

Yeah the blue was messing with vera's head, really the murderer of the game is not even a truly bad person, she was insane from the blue. the way I see it was the blue drove her mad over the course of her lifetime, who all knows what she was seeing if vera was already talking to her dead boyfriend at this young of an age. Like I said in a previous post that is my one regret, I wish we could have known more about her and her struggles.