Top 5 hardest bosses in the series? (In your oppinion)

[Arkardu]

I'm curious to see which bosses has caused people the most trouble.

[Forgot7en]

"Oppinion"?

I define a difficult boss based on how challenging it is to defeat it without taking damage while doing the most damage yourself on DMD. Therefore, every single boss in DMC4 is a joke and instantly disqualified. They're more aggressive in 4SE, which makes Berial more annoying than difficult, but otherwise they're just as absurdly easy.

So here's my top 5:
#5 DMC1 Nightmare 3
#4 DMC3 Vergil 3
#3 DMC2 Tateobesu
#2 DMC2 Trismagia
#1 DMC2 Argosax Chaos

[DarkJuda On Deck]

In my opinion, the bosses in DMC4 are not that easier than those in DMC1, it's just that in DMC4 the gameplay is way more smooth, it offers way more combo possibilities and the camera is way better.
In DMC1 the gameplay is very rigid and not suited for this type of game while the camera angles are just atrocious.
Put DMC1 bosses in DMC4 and they will get ridiculously easy too. Or the other way around, put DMC1 Dante (with its gameplay) in DMC4 and the game becomes incredibly hard. I'm not even talking about getting the DMC1 horrible camera angles in DMC4.
I don't even think the Legendary Dark Knigh mode would be doable (Hell or Hell? LoL).

DMC2 bosses are hard mostly because of bad design.

I agree with alexx's top 5, but I don't consider DMC4 easier, I consider it way more permissive and way better designed overvall which make the game seem easier.

[Forgot7en]

False. None of what you said makes any sense. DMC4 gives you far too many overpowered moves that bosses can't deal with at all and you can just use them with little to no skill or regards to timing. Nero has Charge Shot 3, DT Buster, Maximum Bet and Showdown, but even if he didn't, practically all of the bosses in the game except Credo and both iterations of Sanctus simply let you wail on them without a second thought. They're punching bags with legs. Dante has Distortion and Real Impact/Straight. Vergil has level 3 Beowulf charges AND Distortion AND Heavy Rain Swords will freeze bosses on the spot so you can spam the ♥♥♥♥ out of it. And both Lady and Trish are designed for spamming 1-2 things in the whole game (Shotgun CS3/RoundTrip etc) literally without a second thought. But is this really the fault of your gameplay choices?

No, it's the terrible enemy design. Bosses were much better designed in DMC1 and spamming anything on them without infinite DT requires skill, especially on DMD. It's not like you don't have moves that deal a ♥♥♥♥ ton of damage, DT Helm Breaker is really good against Phantom and you can kill him in seconds, but your timing and placement needs to be absolutely perfect in doing so. Griffon is a huge hitbox but he is not a punching bag, he's always on the move, you have projectiles to worry about, and while Meteor and Inferno are the best things to use against Griffon safely, Meteor needs to be charged up at also the perfect moment and using Inferno is generally a bad idea to use against bosses, as it's basically telling the boss to hit you. If you do it wrong, you not only waste your DT, you don't get the most damage out of it and you'll likely get hit. It's basically the most useless attack to use against Nelo Angelo for those very reasons. You could even use Inerno on Phantom, but then you'd run out of DT and thus you wouldn't be using it efficiently.

If you put bosses in DMC1 exactly the way they are in DMC4, I can picture a scenario where you'd try to set up a Real Impact/Straight against Phantom and he'd just smack you in the face instantly. Try to stand on him and he'd just shake you off, you'd hit the exoskeleton, leaving you completely open, and then he'd smack you in the face instantly. Furthermore, any time you hit Phantom with a really strong attack, he reels back in pain and you can't hit him again until he returns to normal (hence using Air Raid is slower than DT Helm Breaker).
Occasionally after damaging him enough he will fade out (similar to Berial) which would allow you to setup a Straight, but more than likely you wouldn't have enough time to fully charge it before he recovered, unless you started charging it way ahead of time, which means you'd finally need to time this at the right moment. Real Impact would only hit once, thus making Distortion pointless.
As Nero, if you tried to use CS3, you'd probably end up wasting time, as the detonation would likely make him reel back in pain and not deal enough damage to be worth the time, unless you used it like a finisher. Maximum Bet would probably be useless due to his largely indestructible exoskeleton and Showdown would be pretty much unuseable.
Vergil wouldn't be able to use Beowulf effectively, Judgement Cut and Heavy Rain Swords would probably be severely nerfed as some of the projectiles would hit the mostly untouchable body, you'd likely have to fight Phantom normally.
Trish's Round Trip would be useless, it would hit the body and instantlybounce back, Revenge would cause him to reel back and become untouchable for too long, making it a waste of DT.
Probably Lady would still be allowed to dish out two-to-three Shotgun CS3s before he reeled back, etc.
Finally, the Helm Breaker strategy wouldn't work quite as well against Phantom because Helm Breaker's damage doesn't scale enough with height in DMC4 compared to DMC1, whose damage is enough from an Air Hike in DMC1 to make it the most viable dps on Phantom on any difficulty setting, provided you're DT'd. Maybe it could work well with Distortion, but then it'd only work with Dante and Vergil. Nero's Split/Double Down might also work, but then that leaves out Trish and Lady.

As for the DMC2 bosses I listed, yes, Tateobesu and Argosax Chaos are the most notoriously badly designed bosses I've ever seen in my entire life. But Trismagia is good. It's basically a bullet hell boss where you can only shoot when you're not dodging projectiles. It would be really fun in DMC4 where you can use Table Hopper or Trickster or Royalguard or whatever to deal with them. DMC2's controls are much more stiff compared to DMC1 and so dodging those projectiles perfectly is much more difficult but entirely doable. It would be much more accessible to do with DMC4's controls/physics, but this boss wouldn't be any easier, you're not given enough opportunities to hit it with melee attacks so that rules out Distortion/Real Impact/Beowulf CL3/Showdown/Buster, etc. etc. though probably Lady and Trish would make this boss a complete joke. Judgement Cut/Nero's CS3 would probably do fair damage, though. Dante could probably get away with a couple fully stock Arguments and maybe Over Drive would hit.

However, putting DMC1 Dante in DMC4 wouldn't make the bosses any harder. Like I said, most of them are just punching bags, you can simply wail on them all day long with the occasional dodge. I'm sure you could finish off Berial with only Meteors right at the start before he even got the chance to get close to you. Inferno would make quick work of Bael/Dagon and their Rusalkas because Ifrit deals extra elemental damage to ice enemies. Vortex lv2 and Air Raid would make Sanctus the easiest boss in the game. DMC1 Dante has really OP DT moves, which is why the bosses need to be particularly competent and that's where the need for appropriate timing and placement comes in. DMC4 has practically none of this skill requirement for most of its bosses. Don't even make me talk about The Savior.

So no, it's not better designed, it's in fact worsely designed; the controls and mechanics are indeed just generally smoother, but the bosses are simply stupidly easy.

As for your comments on the camera: duly dismissed. You want to talk about terrible camera, you can flame DMC2 all day, but it's absolutely fine in DMC1. I rarely ever had any trouble with it, if at all.

[DarkJuda On Deck]

Still thinking your opinion is the absolute truth, uh?

It's juste a matter of point of view, and yours is very closed. I'm beggining to get use to it though.

[GregHouse!]

Originally posted by ELYSEE CHIRAC:

In my opinion, the bosses in DMC4 are not that easier than those in DMC1, it's just that in DMC4 the gameplay is way more smooth, it offers way more combo possibilities and the camera is way better.
In DMC1 the gameplay is very rigid and not suited for this type of game while the camera angles are just atrocious.
Put DMC1 bosses in DMC4 and they will get ridiculously easy too. Or the other way around, put DMC1 Dante (with its gameplay) in DMC4 and the game becomes incredibly hard. I'm not even talking about getting the DMC1 horrible camera angles in DMC4.
I don't even think the Legendary Dark Knigh mode would be doable (Hell or Hell? LoL).

DMC2 bosses are hard mostly because of bad design.

I agree with alexx's top 5, but I don't consider DMC4 easier, I consider it way more permissive and way better designed overvall which make the game seem easier.

That logic makes no sense. Don't you realize that all those aspects that you are trying to dismiss (camera, less combo potential, gameplay not smooth as DMC4) should all be taking into account when you are only trying to know:

Originally posted by Arkardu:

I'm curious to see which bosses has caused people the most trouble.

The hardest bosses are the bosses that make a player struggle more. Period. Don't complicate things by taking bosses and characters out of games and mixing them in games with different mechancis that weren't designed for them lol.

By your reasoning, "God Of War bosses are harder than Dark Souls bosses" because the chosen undead is an average person with simple attack moves but if you put Kratos on Dark Souls he would demolish everything by double jumping, spamming arrows, a roll that sends you half screen away from the enemies, unlimited blocking, a supermove with tons of I-frames, etc... But those bosses are not really easier, I struggled with many bosses on Dark Souls 1 while I killed everything first try on GOW3.

So, if you just want to say that DMC1 bosses are harder because the gameplay is really bad and DMC4 is a much better game which is the reason that makes the bosses so easy in your opinion. Then just say that lol.

[Clancy McFancy]

The only one that really gave me trouble was Nelo Angelo 1

[sidewinder_G]

None of the DMC 4 bosses gave me trouble because of the combat system having so many useful choices seamlessly molded into each other. I played a lot of DMC 4 in 2009 and then I played it again last week. I finished the palace with Nero, something which gave me a lot of trouble 10 years ago, simply by learning to use the charge shot and mapping it to a different button. First try too. Not because I am an expert but because the system is very well made.

Νeither the DMC 1 ones gave me trouble, maybe Mundus at the end of DMD but there is the untouchable star which you can use. Used one when I beat the thing back in 2002. Had a lot of fun with that, should probably buy the collection.

DMC 3 takes the freaking cake by far for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chessboard level. Back in 2005, I only played it on hard but it was a trip to the land of Underpowerstan. That wasn't a game, it was an endurance test :P

So:

DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard

[Forgot7en]

Originally posted by sidewinder_G:

DMC 3 takes the freaking cake by far for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chessboard level. Back in 2005, I only played it on hard but it was a trip to the land of Underpowerstan. That wasn't a game, it was an endurance test :P

So:

DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard

LOL you really are the biggest noob I've ever seen

[Comkill117]

Are we talking challenging or bullsh*t? Because a lot of the bosses in DMC2 on DMD are just bullsh*t, with their endless projectile spamming and obscenely long healthbars.

I'd say my order goes something like:

5. DMC3 Nevan (Idk I've just always had a hard time with her)
4. DMC2 Trismagia (Dante please just get up!!! Seriously this fight is awful!)
3. DMC1 Nelo Angelo 3/Vergil (Guy almost always kills me)
2. DMC3 Vergil 3 (What a legendary final boss though, he's the best!)
1. DMC1 Nightmare 3 (It's Hell fighting him, but what a final showdown)

I should note that this is on DMD and I didn't Include more than 1 from DMC2, if I put them all here that would be the whole list.

I also don't find any of 4's bosses to be all that tough, and I'd say most of 3's are pretty forgiving too (especially when you learn their telegraphs).

[Mr. Alucard]

Finished DMC3 no problem on all dificulty settings yet hardstuck on third level of DMC because of camera angles.

[Arkardu]

Originally posted by sidewinder_G:

None of the DMC 4 bosses gave me trouble because of the combat system having so many useful choices seamlessly molded into each other. I played a lot of DMC 4 in 2009 and then I played it again last week. I finished the palace with Nero, something which gave me a lot of trouble 10 years ago, simply by learning to use the charge shot and mapping it to a different button. First try too. Not because I am an expert but because the system is very well made.

Νeither the DMC 1 ones gave me trouble, maybe Mundus at the end of DMD but there is the untouchable star which you can use. Used one when I beat the thing back in 2002. Had a lot of fun with that, should probably buy the collection.

DMC 3 takes the freaking cake by far for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ chessboard level. Back in 2005, I only played it on hard but it was a trip to the land of Underpowerstan. That wasn't a game, it was an endurance test :P

So:

DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard
DMC 3 Chessboard

Beowolf and Killer Bee jump canceling. Then the chessboard is easy.

[error780]

#5 DMC2 Bolverk (♥♥♥♥ those wolves)
#4 DMC2 Trismagia (can't use melee attacks and need to constantly evade)
#3 DMC3 Arkham (can't DT half fight)
#2 DMC3 Vergil 3 (he is the final boss for a reason, you know)
#1 DMC Nightmare 3 (that's what I call a really appropiate name for a boss)

[duhmzdaih]

Blob Arkham can go **** himself.

[Sixtyfivekills]

5. Nightmare, he's not really that hard once you get the hang of it, but there's little to no room for mistakes.
4. Vergil, he's fun to fight, but fast as a bullet and hits like a truck.
3. Beowulf, i still don't know the proper way of defeating him besides spamming the attack and getting away with trickster.
2. Mundus, first section is a bullet hell, second section is just... hard. You really have to react quickly because his attacks are devastating.
1. Arkham. ♥♥♥♥ this guy, and screw the no DT rule.

[ChurchGorilla]

Originally posted by Sixtyfivekills:

Beowulf, i still don't know the proper way of defeating him besides spamming the attack and getting away with trickster.

Aim for his face. If you hit it (easiest to do with Cerberus air), you blind him and he cancels whatever he does for his double swipe. That way you can force him into a constant behavior loop