Devil May Cry HD Collection

Devil May Cry HD Collection

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Lymmea Jan 8, 2019 @ 8:04pm
Cheating: port or emulator?
Please don't derail my question with the discussion of the ethics of cheating at these games, or the ethics of emulating. For one thing, I own DMC1, DMC2, and DMC3 in real life(both the original and special editions, in fact, re: DMC3), so Capcom already has my money there. As for the cheating, I've played all the games through the regular ways, and mostly my wanting to cheat is my wanting to get to the NG+ levels of progress I had in the games on their original systems. And let's be real, NG+ makes most of the game challenges trivial in any case; I'm just saving myself some time getting to that point.

So, the meat of the question is this: I'm mostly interested in DMC1 and DMC3, as anyone would be. Would I have better/easier ways of cheating available (aka invincibility for unlocking things quickly via the hard difficulties, if not just a straight up 'unlock everything' code, or infinite red orbs) if I emulate, or should I get the PC version? Which is going to run better? I assume I'll be able to use a controller either way.

At the end of the day I just want the best experience, and to be able to jump into the game like I never left as opposed to having to start all my progress over. Obviously, before I spend money re-buying games I already own, I want to make sure it'll be able to give me what I'm looking for...and I've heard quite a few complaints about the PC versions of the DMC games. Will it actually be better emulated than ported? Does it vary between games?
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
DarkJuda On Deck Jan 9, 2019 @ 12:31am 
The PC version indeed has a few issues.

First and worst of all, is that you need SSE4 suport on you CPU to run DMC1 HD. So a recent CPU is required (no phenom or athlon). A workaround exists, but doesn't work for everyone.
Also, the ports themselves indeed have issues to, mostly DMC1. Some missing effects here and there, audio looping not right, etc... but nothing game breaking. If you are not a DMC1 expert, the only thing you'll notice is the bad skybox on the bridge.
It seems to be due to Capcom not having saved the final build of DMC1 and had to rebuild the game like a jigsaw puzzle. Also some effects were specifically designed to work with the PS2's motion engine and cannot be ported that easily (same issue with Silent Hill's 2 fog for exemple). I agree they could have done more with the port, but considering how much sales they were expecting, I can understand they didn't want to put tons of money in it.

As for cheating, it's obviously easier on the pc version. Not only you can find completed saves files rather easily, but you can also find trainers for the three games.
Even if it's not a cheat, you can download Serpentiem's StyleSwitcher mod for DMC3, that gives you the ability to switch styles on the fly like in DMC4. Other options are availables (some allowing you to increase your attack speed or run faster for exemple), and new ones will come in the future (including new features for DMC1 and DMC2). To be truly honnest, that alone is a good reason to buy the HD Collection.

Also, a big difference between the HD Collection and the original games is the 16/9 aspect ratio.

In terms of perfomance, it's about the same as emulating considering the HD Collection is a semi emulation. It also means that, contrary to the awful sourcenext's orginal pc port of DMC3, game speed is tied to framerate, meaning that if you can't keep up 60fps at all times, the game will slow down. And you can't do anything about it.

To sum up, I'll say that yes, the HD Collection on steam has a few issues (mostly DMC1) and drawbacks, but if your are not nitpicky about sound and effects exactitude, and if your pc can run the three games at a constant 60fps, you'll get many advantages compared to emulation, including serpentiem's mod, 16/9 aspect ratio and, if you want to play the game that way, easier cheating.
ChurchGorilla Jan 9, 2019 @ 1:13am 
All you need for either game on the PC is a 100% save.
Also what is it with Capcom constantly losing the source code of their games
Last edited by ChurchGorilla; Jan 9, 2019 @ 1:15am
Lymmea Jan 9, 2019 @ 2:16am 
I did consider the possibility of grabbing 100% save files, and that would definitely be easier; I suppose it's easier to get those through the port than an emulator, which might well require a specific kind of save file, but I thought there might be enough DMC fans who've emulated the game that I might be able to find something either way. But I figured I'd restrict my question to what I can do myself, just in case I couldn't get imported save files to work; I've had issues with them in the past on different games, so knowing I can brute force it with cheats myself if necessary seemed like the thing to be sure of.

I'm surprised to hear that the PC version would be easier to cheat with, though; I thought emulated versions would be easier, considering things like GameShark and Codebreaker. (Admittedly, if I do emulate these games, they'll be among the most current gen games I've ever emulated, so maybe it's harder for emulation cheats to get going on more current games.)

That said, I'm not sure if my computer would have problems running the game or not. This is my very first PC after a lifetime of using Macs; I recently made the switch because Macs have gotten so damn expensive, and because I wanted more access to games. So I'm pretty inexperienced with knowing what it can or can't do, or how to optimize it in any way. It is in theory a gaming laptop - an ROG Asus STRIX GL703VD, GTX 1050 4GB, Intel Core i7 2.8 GHz, 16GB DDR4, 1TB FireCuda SSHD - but I have no idea what that means for how well it could run DMC1, if it can run it at all. Macs have a number of good points, but they sure as hell don't teach you much about how computers work.

I did see in another discussion that someone suggested emulating DMC1, and using the PC port of DMC3. Would emulating DMC1 get around the difficulties of playing the port, or would I run into the same ones?
Lymmea Jan 9, 2019 @ 4:05am 
I mean, I am autistic, thank you, but I'm not particularly anal-retentive about video game graphics. Or most other things.

I've heard plenty about CheatEngine, but since I've been Mac-only for most of my life I've had very little experience with it. That I got it to work on any game at all on my Mac, ever, is kind of an accomplishment. Possibly DMC will be my introduction into finally getting the full use out of it.

In any case, if I'm going to be getting the HD Collection for DMC3 anyway, that'll come with DMC1, so there's no reason for me not to give the port a shot before I go to any potentially needless effort emulating.

Now I get to kick myself for not buying the game while it was on sale, but I'd heard enough bad things about the PC ports that I held off...
Last edited by Lymmea; Jan 9, 2019 @ 4:06am
Space Coward Jan 9, 2019 @ 5:22am 
Okay, there is one bug nobody really talks about because it's so late in the game. I'll put it under spoilers.

Bloom effects in general are gone, and sure, that sucks. The real issue, though, is a certain texture error:

Again, spoilers for DMC1:
During Part 1 of the Mundus fight, most particle effects aren't clamped correctly. They're visibly cut off on the left side of each particle, and it's pretty obnoxious.

At the end of the day, they were new ports of Capcom games at $10 apiece... more or less something you would pay on GOG for a tweaked Windows 98 game with a few weird issues here and there. DMCHD's quality id pretty comparable, as a basic port that gets it right where it counts in audio and performance.

I would really just recommend playing the ports with 100% saves. Due to how CheatEngine can be used, it's a target for many anti-cheat programs in multiplayer games... even having that on your computer can make you a suspect depending on the detection system.

All save files can be found under your Steam userdata. Options (file extension: sav) can be edited with Notepad or Notepad++, if you want to mess with resolutions and such. All other sav files need a hex editor, it seems.
Lymmea Jan 9, 2019 @ 5:51am 
Ah, okay. Thanks for the tips! 100% save files would pretty much get me everything I want; as I said, NG+ or things like Super Dante/Super Vergil render the challenge of the games pretty trivial in any case, so I don't feel a particular need for many more cheats than that.

As for CheatEngine and multiplayer games, I play very few games with competitive multiplayer. I have FFXIV, which I'm still fairly new to and I wouldn't attempt to cheat in any case; I own Overwatch and Destiny 2, but I rarely play either and wouldn't try to cheat those either. I also play some Diablo 3. At the end of the day I'm more of a single player or co-op gamer, so I don't THINK running CheatEngine would put me much at risk...and as I understand, most anti-cheat measures look to see if you have CheatEngine running while you're playing the game, which I wouldn't unless I was actively using it on the game in question, and as I said I have no interest in using it on any of the games that might theoretically be worried about cheating.
Lu2 Jan 9, 2019 @ 10:33am 
Originally posted by GMGMaker:
All you need for either game on the PC is a 100% save.
Also what is it with Capcom constantly losing the source code of their games
its was common back in day for jp devs. some does that on purpose
ChurchGorilla Jan 12, 2019 @ 10:07am 
I would really just recommend playing the ports with 100% saves. Due to how CheatEngine can be used, it's a target for many anti-cheat programs in multiplayer games... even having that on your computer can make you a suspect depending on the detection system
That's just a baseless assumption. Any competent anti cheat tool is only set off if the cheat engine starts messing with the memory of the game, meaning that they don't even care if you just leave cheat engine running without doing anything with it.
Only case where I heard anything else happening is Escape from Tarkov where the anti cheat was set off by cheat engine remnants in the memory (ie you had opened and closed cheat engine before without restarting the pc) but that's what happens when the developers are dumb and use unfinished, useless and broken self developed anti cheats.

Also in regards to using cheat engine, all you need is to grab a cheat engine table from online, hook the cheat engine application to the game process and open the table.
Still if you ever need to use cheat engine for the hd collection grab this table http://fearlessrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?t=6311
Lymmea Jan 13, 2019 @ 3:42am 
Originally posted by GMGMaker:
That's just a baseless assumption. Any competent anti cheat tool is only set off if the cheat engine starts messing with the memory of the game, meaning that they don't even care if you just leave cheat engine running without doing anything with it.
Only case where I heard anything else happening is Escape from Tarkov where the anti cheat was set off by cheat engine remnants in the memory (ie you had opened and closed cheat engine before without restarting the pc) but that's what happens when the developers are dumb and use unfinished, useless and broken self developed anti cheats.

To be fair, I'm pretty sure I've heard about some games dinging you for cheating just for having CheatEngine running. Whether that means their devs are incompetent or paranoid, who knows, but I know I've heard of it in regards to more than one game. (And, of course, Fallout 76 banned people for using mods, any mods, including purely graphical mods...but that's a whole other kettle of fish. Still, it's not unheard of for devs to be ban-happy even at the mere whiff of cheating.)

I seriously doubt these ports care about that kind of thing, though, and as I said, if I used CheatEngine for them I wouldn't keep it running while I wasn't using it, or playing other games in which I'm not cheating. So it's a moot point. And thank you for the link!
Cat Daddy Jan 19, 2019 @ 8:46pm 
WOW WHAT A SHOCKER............crapcom........bad PC PORTS?

...........NEVER...............

seriously how the hell do people trust this company with there money? its like giving a drug addict money and then being shocked they spent it on drugs.

ALL crapcoms ports have been half-assed lazy messes with only a fair few actually being...OK at best. You have the absolute mess that was Dead Rising 3.......crapcom made such a mess of that they just abandoned it and went to dead rising 4....which is also a mess of a port

They did RE 5 and RE6 which are both full of problems such as memmory leaks, black screens for no reason, random resources being used for nothing, oddly making blower fans work much harder than they should be (down to bad coding), dont even get me started on RE7 and how they just didnt give a crap about a lot of users.

I wanted to buy this HD collection as honestly its a lot of messing about emulating the games. You need to mess around changing which directX works best for it, then other various options and so fourth....i just wanted to replay the games again but low and behold crapcom prove why their called crapcom by alot of people and yet again dont bother with doing a good job for the PC port.

Yet you get idiots who defend this company while forcing playing to watch adverts in SF5 and making a demo people can only play for 30mins before they get locked out....yet it takes a good 10 mins to sort the graphics out properly.

Honestly im amazed this game doesnt come with a 20 minute video saying how great capcom is...by capcom themselves....which you cant force exit and have to watch everytime you load the game....................probably saving that for RE2 remake...even though they didnt actually make the game themselves
DarkJuda On Deck Jan 20, 2019 @ 4:16am 
Originally posted by Cat Daddy:
They did RE 5 and RE6 which are both full of problems such as memmory leaks, black screens for no reason, random resources being used for nothing, oddly making blower fans work much harder than they should be (down to bad coding), dont even get me started on RE7 and how they just didnt give a crap about a lot of users.

RE5 and RE6 are not ports. Those are PC version developped alongside the console versions, like they usually do nowadays.

I tend to say that it's not because it runs great for some that it runs great for everyone elses and unlike a lot of people adore to say, it's not necessary because of your system that you are getting issues.
But the opposite is also true.

Most Capcom pc versions, starting from RE5 runs great on most systems. Of course there can be issues and incompatibilities, but a large majority of people think they are good versions.
SFIV, RE5,DMC4,RE6,RE7, RE2 Demo... to my knowledge they all works great on pc.
RE7 ran great for like 90% of users from day one. We can't say the same from most games nowdays. As for the DmC: Devil May Cry port, it has been made by QLOC.But anyway, it's still a great port.

MHW is a bit tricky because the MH team never developped a pc version before, it's their first time. Considering that, it's not that bad. I've seen ports from companies that port games to pc all the time, like Koëi Tecmo and those are much worse.

For Dead Rising 3, it falls right at the moment where Capcom was in a really bad shape financially speaking and Sony helped them to get back on their feet. They needed to make the pc port as fast and as cheap as possible. That explains why it's so bad.
Dead Rising 4 has a better port (even if not that great I agree) but it's the game itself that isn't great. But it's not that those pc ports are bad, those games already have performance issues on console to beggin with.

And for the DMCHD Collection, they knew it wasn't gonna sell a lot. It's a third release (if we count the first DMC 5th Anniversary Collection on ps2), so the only one that were gonna buy it, are the ones that didn't get the PS3/360 version in the first place. They couldn't inverst large sums of money in a port they knew it will flop. Last time I checked, on steamspy (when it worked) the DMCHD Collection on steam sold about 20 000 units in 3 months.
Why would they spend more money on this port to please those who were saying "if they fix it I'll buy it", when we all know that they are not planning to buy it anyway?

Also

You need to mess around changing which directX works best for it, then other various options and so fourth....

What doest that mean? "Which directX"? Doesn't matter, if you are lacking some dX files you just re-install it, there is no "which". Which options? There is nothing to configure dX wise. But if you are having issues with lacking dX files, then it doesn't have anything to do with the DMCHD Collection, you would have issues in other games if they start asking for the same libraries.

Aside from the little "minor"issues that most people won't even see, the only real issue with this port is that DMC1 HD doesn't work without SSE 4.1 support and old AMD CPUs don't have these instuctions, so either you manage to emulate them or you have to change your CPU to play DMC1 HD.
Last edited by DarkJuda On Deck; Jan 20, 2019 @ 4:29am
ChurchGorilla Jan 20, 2019 @ 7:03am 
Originally posted by Cat Daddy:
ALL crapcoms ports have been half-assed lazy messes with only a fair few actually being...OK at best
DMC4, DDDA, REmake and REmake2 come to my head when it comes to fantastic optimization. So yeah, your statement is dumb and you should be ashamed for saying such dumb things.
its a lot of messing about emulating the games
https://wiki.pcsx2.net/Devil_May_Cry Literally just google the title of the game with pcsx2 added to it and this is the first link that pops up. Is that too hard for you ?
yet it takes a good 10 mins to sort the graphics out properly
Literally just set the settings as high as the stats allow you to and disable the bad post processing settings and anti aliasing. Is that too hard for you ? also you can disable the timer

Originally posted by DarkJuda:
MHW is a bit tricky because the MH team never developped a pc version before, it's their first time.
the real issue here is that the MH team never worked with graphics more advanced than the ps2 for more than 20 years, which is why they couldn't even make it run at a stable 60fps on the pro consoles.
Last edited by ChurchGorilla; Jan 20, 2019 @ 7:10am
Lymmea Jan 22, 2019 @ 10:47pm 
Originally posted by Cat Daddy:
(a whole bunch of unrelated kvetching)

Dude, I'm aware these ports aren't necessarily great, but if all you want to do is complain about how bad Capcom's ports are, maybe make your own topic rather than derailing mine with your spleen-venting? How much you personally hate Capcom ports has zero relevance to me or this thread.
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Date Posted: Jan 8, 2019 @ 8:04pm
Posts: 13