True 50/50s?

[Terrarius]

Are there weapons+tricks with which you can do "true" 50/50s?
True meaning that someone realy has to guess to avoid the attack.
A "false" 50/50 is for example all the zweihanderstuff: if your opponent just closes his eyes and listens to the audio he can react to beat all of your options with no need for guessing

[Grey Tea Latte]

"True" 50/50s? No, not really. Pretty much every thing is readable, or at the very least, counterable by stuff like chamber feint to parry.

The closest you could come would be stab/stab morph/stab morph feint/ mixups with the bastard sword or estoc which can be very difficult to read, but again, it still is readable, just difficult to do so.

Not really sure what you're talking about with "false" 50/50s, that's not really a term, and I don't really understand what you're saying in your example.

[Terrarius]

Originally posted by Slavic Fedora:

"True" 50/50s? No, not really. Pretty much every thing is readable, or at the very least, counterable by stuff like chamber feint to parry.

The closest you could come would be stab/stab morph/stab morph feint/ mixups with the bastard sword or estoc which can be very difficult to read, but again, it still is readable, just difficult to do so.

Not really sure what you're talking about with "false" 50/50s, that's not really a term, and I don't really understand what you're saying in your example.

It are terms which are used in fighting games.
"false" mixups are mixups that only work if your opponent does not know how to deal with them.
"true" mixups are mixups that can not be reacted to: your opponent has to guess

[Terrarius]

Originally posted by Slavic Fedora:

"True" 50/50s? No, not really. Pretty much every thing is readable, or at the very least, counterable by stuff like chamber feint to parry.

The closest you could come would be stab/stab morph/stab morph feint/ mixups with the bastard sword or estoc which can be very difficult to read, but again, it still is readable, just difficult to do so.

Not really sure what you're talking about with "false" 50/50s, that's not really a term, and I don't really understand what you're saying in your example.

Which leads to this question:
Is the duel meta to never try any fancy tricks and just play the stamina game?
If it is possible for a perfect player to just defend against all tricks and these tricks cost stamina which results in your loss if it runs out, there should be no place for chambers, morphs or feints in the high-level duel meta

[Wub]

Top level play is all drags and accels with longsword/greatsword.

[Greenswampy]

Currently the only 50/50 party in the game has to do with a jump kick after hitting someone. Ex: I stab u with a spear and then jump kick, this is a guaranteed hit unless one parry's so alot of people will feint a jump kick after landing a hit to get the opponent to 50/50 party as it is also unreadable. In essence this attack is unpunishable for the attacker and a 50/50 for the defense with best possible outcome blocking the kick for the defender. Top level play is not 50/50.

[Terrarius]

Originally posted by ž |GreenswampyTTV:

Currently the only 50/50 party in the game has to do with a jump kick after hitting someone. Ex: I stab u with a spear and then jump kick, this is a guaranteed hit unless one parry's so alot of people will feint a jump kick after landing a hit to get the opponent to 50/50 party as it is also unreadable. In essence this attack is unpunishable for the attacker and a 50/50 for the defense with best possible outcome blocking the kick for the defender. Top level play is not 50/50.

Can"t they just counterkick?

[COMP DBD 1V1]

yes true 50/50s exist, its a specific animation though and requires a lot of setup to do
people talk a lot about hammer hits -> jump kick but i dont feel thats particularly that powerful anyway

this animation requires the other guy to not be footworking away from your accel, you need to be at facehug range, you need a riposte with an opposite sided parry (wristy twisty anim), and you need to be footsniffing
the motion is to footsniff, look away (if its a right side parry look to the right), then immediately aim the weapon left for an accel
to drag you just do the same motion and keep looking down, the weapon should never go up again, but at the very last second before it makes contact you drag out
it looks super ♥♥♥♥♥♥ because the weapon hilt and blade is very likely nearly already touching you yet your parry just doesnt do anything, the other guy is dragging it out
the animation resolves itself in like 100ms because of the weird properties that happens if you stare at the floor with a horizontal sweep

it forces the other guy to cftp out because the accel is indistinguishable from a drag, there is no humanly possible way to read within a 50ms windup whetever the guy will decide drag or keep acceling

[Terrarius]

Originally posted by missharvey <intel>:

yes true 50/50s exist, its a specific animation though and requires a lot of setup to do
people talk a lot about hammer hits -> jump kick but i dont feel thats particularly that powerful anyway

this animation requires the other guy to not be footworking away from your accel, you need to be at facehug range, you need a riposte with an opposite sided parry (wristy twisty anim), and you need to be footsniffing
the motion is to footsniff, look away (if its a right side parry look to the right), then immediately aim the weapon left for an accel
to drag you just do the same motion and keep looking down, the weapon should never go up again, but at the very last second before it makes contact you drag out
it looks super ♥♥♥♥♥♥ because the weapon hilt and blade is very likely nearly already touching you yet your parry just doesnt do anything, the other guy is dragging it out
the animation resolves itself in like 100ms because of the weird properties that happens if you stare at the floor with a horizontal sweep

it forces the other guy to cftp out because the accel is indistinguishable from a drag, there is no humanly possible way to read within a 50ms windup whetever the guy will decide drag or keep acceling

How is that technique called?(so that i can search a video about it)

[Greenswampy]

Originally posted by Terrarius:

Originally posted by ž |GreenswampyTTV:

Currently the only 50/50 party in the game has to do with a jump kick after hitting someone. Ex: I stab u with a spear and then jump kick, this is a guaranteed hit unless one parry's so alot of people will feint a jump kick after landing a hit to get the opponent to 50/50 party as it is also unreadable. In essence this attack is unpunishable for the attacker and a 50/50 for the defense with best possible outcome blocking the kick for the defender. Top level play is not 50/50.

Can"t they just counterkick?

Not in this specific case as you are in the stun block. Normally yes, however if you try to in this specific case you just gamble and again if they feint sure u will punish but if they don't you will likely get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard

[COMP DBD 1V1]

Originally posted by GreenswampyTTV:

Originally posted by Terrarius:

Can"t they just counterkick?

Not in this specific case as you are in the stun block. Normally yes, however if you try to in this specific case you just gamble and again if they feint sure u will punish but if they don't you will likely get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hard

hitstun isnt that long, you can apply this very late drags too, as in you hit someone with an ultra drag, they will be in hitstun for too long to make a chamber input
if you hit someone with a stab or accel hitstun will wear off because he got hit very early and by the time your in windup again he can input an attack

[COMP DBD 1V1]

Originally posted by Terrarius:

Originally posted by missharvey <intel>:

yes true 50/50s exist, its a specific animation though and requires a lot of setup to do
people talk a lot about hammer hits -> jump kick but i dont feel thats particularly that powerful anyway

this animation requires the other guy to not be footworking away from your accel, you need to be at facehug range, you need a riposte with an opposite sided parry (wristy twisty anim), and you need to be footsniffing
the motion is to footsniff, look away (if its a right side parry look to the right), then immediately aim the weapon left for an accel
to drag you just do the same motion and keep looking down, the weapon should never go up again, but at the very last second before it makes contact you drag out
it looks super ♥♥♥♥♥♥ because the weapon hilt and blade is very likely nearly already touching you yet your parry just doesnt do anything, the other guy is dragging it out
the animation resolves itself in like 100ms because of the weird properties that happens if you stare at the floor with a horizontal sweep

it forces the other guy to cftp out because the accel is indistinguishable from a drag, there is no humanly possible way to read within a 50ms windup whetever the guy will decide drag or keep acceling

How is that technique called?(so that i can search a video about it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XSPIJ5eu30

https://youtu.be/iN5fa6Zm8z0?t=250

[Terrarius]

Originally posted by missharvey <intel>:

Originally posted by Terrarius:

How is that technique called?(so that i can search a video about it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XSPIJ5eu30

https://youtu.be/iN5fa6Zm8z0?t=250

Thanks.
I find that concerning because it enforces a defensive meta
The horror-scenario i am imagining:
The one that throws out an attack first has to face a true 50/50, thereby nobody wants to attack first at the highest level.