Archery needs a buff

[w.Fuchs]

Hear me out.

Archery is under powered to the point that there are way too many hoops to jump to make bows even remotely valuable. Crosshair is not always centered, though I wouldn't complain about this had bows not become this under powered.

Arrows are way too slow to the point that even aiming 10m ahead of you requires like at least 1 crosshair distance.

Arrows can be blocked by swords. I've seen arguments from people saying its realistic. These people will also probably tell you that samurais are famed for doing such feats of "mastery". And thats not even the passive blocking power of shields. Them in themselves are not grounds for any kind of tweaks, but always look things in totality and you reliase there are just way too many ways to counter archers both passive and actively.

After all that you still have to contend with the weight of the long bow/ recurve / crossbow. AND the nature of friendly fire.


All of this for a measly 30 damage against medium armor.

Many nay-sayers are saying archery should be a support class, well who the hell gets to decide what is support and isn't? These group of 2h swingers will tell you learn to play melee or to switch weapons well why dosen't the argument apply to them? Get a shield!


They'll say that bows are overpowered, well what are the statistics in the first place? 50% of the entire server running with bows pre-nerf? Or just 30 odd percent? Can the devs seriously post some statistics on the number of archers available?

At some point the nay-sayers have to accept the fact that the skill ceiling is so tremendously low for bows that the best aimer in the world could only get so many kills on bows ALONE. What kind of game do we want where we nerf weapons simply because we have high skilled players?

TLDR: Each of the cons i laid above in of themselves would not be otherwise grounds for tweaks. But when you look at everything in TOTALITY, bows are highly underpowered, i rest my case.

[Zegers]

Disagree. A single arrow instantly puts an enemy down to 1-2 hits from a vast majority of melee weapons in the game, that seems a pretty powerful support tool to me. They're also the hardest counter to horses in the game.

The only real issue I have with archery is Huntsman. Whenever I play archer, if the enemy has a couple other archers with Huntsman it makes me just want to switch to melee and not even bother. It removes a huge portion of skill from being an archer and is not a very fun perk, especially when you are shoe-horned into taking it because every other archer is going to take it. Not to mention having such a mandatory perk really hurts any real build choices you can have since points are few and far between with ranged builds. Also really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying when you get some rat with eight throwing knives and Huntsman being able to two-shot you.

[w.Fuchs]

When you can be put down to 1-2 hits of a melee weapon then who gets the kill between the melee and the archer is more or less 50-50. Its a matter of who lands the first blow, the melee or the archer, and who lands the second. Yet you don't see archers dominating any given game. Dare I say it we could never make a conclusion now or in the past when the discussion on nerfing archery dominated the scene without any statistics that the devs seem to consistently refuse to post.

And again you haven't the main issue of whether archery is truly overpowered. If archery is truly overpowered, riddle me this, why was it that Mordhau wasn't overrun by servers with more than 50% archers?

Likewise if indeed archer is so powerful, why then was the large part of the complain back in chivalry, back when archery was far more powerful compared to here in mordhau, less so about the power of archers and more of the fact that they don't PTFO.

[FCavie]

Yeah I actually agree, even though I don't use bows myself that often. In Chivalry (and real life) bows were feared, you even had a dedicated dialogue button for calling them out, in this game they are just pitiful, throwing a re-sized ballista bolt Javalin does more damage.

[Zegers]

Originally posted by w.fuchs:

When you can be put down to 1-2 hits of a melee weapon then who gets the kill between the melee and the archer is more or less 50-50. Its a matter of who lands the first blow, the melee or the archer, and who lands the second. Yet you don't see archers dominating any given game. Dare I say it we could never make a conclusion now or in the past when the discussion on nerfing archery dominated the scene without any statistics that the devs seem to consistently refuse to post.

And again you haven't the main issue of whether archery is truly overpowered. If archery is truly overpowered, riddle me this, why was it that Mordhau wasn't overrun by servers with more than 50% archers?

Likewise if indeed archer is so powerful, why then was the large part of the complain back in chivalry, back when archery was far more powerful compared to here in mordhau, less so about the power of archers and more of the fact that they don't PTFO.

It's not overpowered. It is a strong support tool. You're not supposed to be dominating the scoreboards with it. I've had plenty of games where I'm top 5 on the scoreboard with it though. You rack up an insane amount of assists very quickly if you're proficient enough to actually hit consistently. It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies. The buff to jump shotting made it much easier to sit behind and just jump shot over and over again as well.

You can't compare archery in this game to archery in Chivalry. Archery was balanced like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Chivalry. You could run around one-shotting people with a weapon that had a ridiculous fire rate. Torn Banner was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lazy the only thing they did to fix it was to limit how many archers could be on the team.

[sparrowbird611]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/629760/discussions/0/1645418448929992271/

I made this thread to make some suggestions for the shields and bows. Tell me if these sound like what you guys are thinking.

[FCavie]

Originally posted by Zegers:

Originally posted by w.fuchs:

When you can be put down to 1-2 hits of a melee weapon then who gets the kill between the melee and the archer is more or less 50-50. Its a matter of who lands the first blow, the melee or the archer, and who lands the second. Yet you don't see archers dominating any given game. Dare I say it we could never make a conclusion now or in the past when the discussion on nerfing archery dominated the scene without any statistics that the devs seem to consistently refuse to post.

And again you haven't the main issue of whether archery is truly overpowered. If archery is truly overpowered, riddle me this, why was it that Mordhau wasn't overrun by servers with more than 50% archers?

Likewise if indeed archer is so powerful, why then was the large part of the complain back in chivalry, back when archery was far more powerful compared to here in mordhau, less so about the power of archers and more of the fact that they don't PTFO.

It's not overpowered. It is a strong support tool. You're not supposed to be dominating the scoreboards with it. I've had plenty of games where I'm top 5 on the scoreboard with it though. You rack up an insane amount of assists very quickly if you're proficient enough to actually hit consistently. It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies. The buff to jump shotting made it much easier to sit behind and just jump shot over and over again as well.

You can't compare archery in this game to archery in Chivalry. Archery was balanced like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Chivalry. You could run around one-shotting people with a weapon that had a ridiculous fire rate. Torn Banner was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lazy the only thing they did to fix it was to limit how many archers could be on the team.

Wasn't the only bow that could one tap armoured foes the Warbow?

[Zegers]

Originally posted by ℱallin'ℭave:

Originally posted by Zegers:

It's not overpowered. It is a strong support tool. You're not supposed to be dominating the scoreboards with it. I've had plenty of games where I'm top 5 on the scoreboard with it though. You rack up an insane amount of assists very quickly if you're proficient enough to actually hit consistently. It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies. The buff to jump shotting made it much easier to sit behind and just jump shot over and over again as well.

You can't compare archery in this game to archery in Chivalry. Archery was balanced like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Chivalry. You could run around one-shotting people with a weapon that had a ridiculous fire rate. Torn Banner was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lazy the only thing they did to fix it was to limit how many archers could be on the team.

Wasn't the only bow that could one tap armoured foes the Warbow?

And it shot ridiculously fast for being able to one-shot.

[FCavie]

Originally posted by Zegers:

Originally posted by ℱallin'ℭave:

Wasn't the only bow that could one tap armoured foes the Warbow?

And it shot ridiculously fast for being able to one-shot.

What! the wind up was so long! you could make a cuppa tea while that thing was drawing.

[w.Fuchs]

Originally posted by Zegers:

Originally posted by w.fuchs:

When you can be put down to 1-2 hits of a melee weapon then who gets the kill between the melee and the archer is more or less 50-50. Its a matter of who lands the first blow, the melee or the archer, and who lands the second. Yet you don't see archers dominating any given game. Dare I say it we could never make a conclusion now or in the past when the discussion on nerfing archery dominated the scene without any statistics that the devs seem to consistently refuse to post.

And again you haven't the main issue of whether archery is truly overpowered. If archery is truly overpowered, riddle me this, why was it that Mordhau wasn't overrun by servers with more than 50% archers?

Likewise if indeed archer is so powerful, why then was the large part of the complain back in chivalry, back when archery was far more powerful compared to here in mordhau, less so about the power of archers and more of the fact that they don't PTFO.

It's not overpowered. It is a strong support tool. You're not supposed to be dominating the scoreboards with it. I've had plenty of games where I'm top 5 on the scoreboard with it though. You rack up an insane amount of assists very quickly if you're proficient enough to actually hit consistently. It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies. The buff to jump shotting made it much easier to sit behind and just jump shot over and over again as well.

You can't compare archery in this game to archery in Chivalry. Archery was balanced like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Chivalry. You could run around one-shotting people with a weapon that had a ridiculous fire rate. Torn Banner was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lazy the only thing they did to fix it was to limit how many archers could be on the team.

I'm not saying that the average joe is supposed to dominate the stat board. The most important question is this, should the most skilled person in the world (with the bow) be allowed to POTENTIALLY dominate the game?

And again you keep ignoring my question, if it is indeed so overpowered before, were servers dominated by 70% archers? Seeing as it is overpowered as they said before they nerfed it into oblivion.

"It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies."

You keep ignoring my arguments. Its not hard when you put it that way, my question is if I were the most skilled player in the world can I be ALLOWED to POTENTIALLY dominate the game. Also why shouldn't archers be allowed to be main classes? Why must we sit in the shadows of the melee weapons?

You keep arguing as if game metas don't evolve organically or that new strats won't evolve if people actually tried.

Tomorrow if javelins are killing too many people I swear the same people are gonna cry the javelins need to be nerfed.

[w.Fuchs]

Originally posted by ℱallin'ℭave:

Originally posted by Zegers:

And it shot ridiculously fast for being able to one-shot.

What! the wind up was so long! you could make a cuppa tea while that thing was drawing.

On top of that it won't stun a guy, so that you had a chance to pull out a secondary to defend yourself.

Again we archers don't need your blessing to not live under your shadow

[Zegers]

Originally posted by w.fuchs:

Originally posted by Zegers:

It's not overpowered. It is a strong support tool. You're not supposed to be dominating the scoreboards with it. I've had plenty of games where I'm top 5 on the scoreboard with it though. You rack up an insane amount of assists very quickly if you're proficient enough to actually hit consistently. It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies. The buff to jump shotting made it much easier to sit behind and just jump shot over and over again as well.

You can't compare archery in this game to archery in Chivalry. Archery was balanced like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ in Chivalry. You could run around one-shotting people with a weapon that had a ridiculous fire rate. Torn Banner was so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lazy the only thing they did to fix it was to limit how many archers could be on the team.

I'm not saying that the average joe is supposed to dominate the stat board. The most important question is this, should the most skilled person in the world (with the bow) be allowed to POTENTIALLY dominate the game?

And again you keep ignoring my question, if it is indeed so overpowered before, were servers dominated by 70% archers? Seeing as it is overpowered as they said before they nerfed it into oblivion.

"It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies."

You keep ignoring my arguments. Its not hard when you put it that way, my question is if I were the most skilled player in the world can I be ALLOWED to POTENTIALLY dominate the game. Also why shouldn't archers be allowed to be main classes? Why must we sit in the shadows of the melee weapons?

You keep arguing as if game metas don't evolve organically or that new strats won't evolve if people actually tried.

Tomorrow if javelins are killing too many people I swear the same people are gonna cry the javelins need to be nerfed.

What the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? What is this "overpowered before" nonsense? Are you talking about Mordhau or Chivalry? Because last I checked archery has only received BUFFS since the release of Mordhau.

A skilled player can be top 5 with a bow consistently, what more do you want? You want archers to be able to just carry the game solo? There's also a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason melee will always do better than an archer. In melee, 1) you are almost always surrounded by potential kills 2) a vast majority of melee weapons in this game cleave, allowing you to hit multiple opponents 3) a good player has many more tools in melee that allow them to farm ♥♥♥♥ players very quickly

[w.Fuchs]

One more point to add on to people who say that archers should just go for headshots.

Let's talk about counter strike for half a second.

The best headshot player who was once a top 5 player in the world had under the most ideal of conditions 70% headshot rate. The average pro, hell even some of the best, had only 50% headshot rate.

These nay-sayers will tell you go for headshots under the most unideal of scenarios and use the results from one or two matches and say "hey i can make top 5 so can you just L2p".

Statistics please. The most ideal of scenarios like in counter strike where shots are instantaneous and as accurate as guns go in pretty much any game. At your best you are only going to get 50% headshot rate, and these nay-sayers will tell you you aren't trying hard enough.

And mind you, 50% headshot rate does not take into account all the other missed shots.

[λdambomb]

Archers in chivalry could 1-shot classes with the warbow, heavy x-bow and heavy javelins. It was cancer AF. This is a melee game. Not an archer game. Archers are support roles and should not dominate the scoreboard.. Archery is unfun and bypasses all of the in-depth melee mechanics. I'm sorry your probably never going to agree with this sentiment so maybe this game isn't for you.

[w.Fuchs]

Originally posted by Zegers:

Originally posted by w.fuchs:

I'm not saying that the average joe is supposed to dominate the stat board. The most important question is this, should the most skilled person in the world (with the bow) be allowed to POTENTIALLY dominate the game?

And again you keep ignoring my question, if it is indeed so overpowered before, were servers dominated by 70% archers? Seeing as it is overpowered as they said before they nerfed it into oblivion.

"It's not hard to play the objective as an archer sitting behind your frontline lobbing shots into the enemies."

You keep ignoring my arguments. Its not hard when you put it that way, my question is if I were the most skilled player in the world can I be ALLOWED to POTENTIALLY dominate the game. Also why shouldn't archers be allowed to be main classes? Why must we sit in the shadows of the melee weapons?

You keep arguing as if game metas don't evolve organically or that new strats won't evolve if people actually tried.

Tomorrow if javelins are killing too many people I swear the same people are gonna cry the javelins need to be nerfed.

What the ♥♥♥♥ are you talking about? What is this "overpowered before" nonsense? Are you talking about Mordhau or Chivalry? Because last I checked archery has only received BUFFS since the release of Mordhau.

A skilled player can be top 5 with a bow consistently, what more do you want? You want archers to be able to just carry the game solo? There's also a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ reason melee will always do better than an archer. In melee, 1) you are almost always surrounded by potential kills 2) a vast majority of melee weapons in this game cleave, allowing you to hit multiple opponents 3) a good player has many more tools in melee that allow them to farm ♥♥♥♥ players very quickly

Did not realise that we weren't going to talk about the betas as well, neither did I realise we should be grateful to our melee overlords for a measly 5% projectile speed.

But I want to hyperfocus on one point, are they overpowered? If so why aren't servers dominated by archers. And if they are fairly balanced then again tell me why must we live in the shadows of melee players such the most skilled player cannot dominate a game single handedly. And mind you THE MOST SKILLED PLAYER, AS HE RIGHTLY DESERVES.

You keep failing to explain why we archers need your blessing to get kills and why we archers if given enough skill should be kept repressed just because of some notion that we are only meant to be support.

Also one more point, why is it so hard to ask melee players to take shields? Shields are so prominent all the way up till gunpowder exists.

Stop framing the issue as if it was up to you and your supporters as to what this game ought to be

[w.Fuchs]

Originally posted by λdambomb:

Archers in chivalry could 1-shot classes with the warbow, heavy x-bow and heavy javelins. It was cancer AF. This is a melee game. Not an archer game. Archers are support roles and should not dominate the scoreboard.. Archery is unfun and bypasses all of the in-depth melee mechanics. I'm sorry your probably never going to agree with this sentiment so maybe this game isn't for you.

You say that but how many archers actually dominated the scoreboard back in chivalry?