Why spears are the best weapon.

[TotallynotaBot]

In real life.
I see alot of people quoting real life to defend spears in game so lets go over why they where effective in real life

They where way cheaper to make than swords (this is the number one factor above all others),took less training to use,was good for formations,good vs cav.....To a point.

None of the above applys to in game.

In real life you could not stab a guy at point blank unless your arms happened to be 20ft long,Stab dragging? Whats that?magic?
Near everything that a spear does in game is nothing less than sorcery and thats why its the most hated weapon in game not because muh 2h.Spear is also a 2h weapon btw.

[Mononymouse]

mate, spears are balanced.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mordhau/comments/bxdo92/spear_god/

[TotallynotaBot]

Originally posted by Golden Snowflake:

mate, spears are balanced.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mordhau/comments/bxdo92/spear_god/

Eh,that is why I stay away from duel servers in all melee combat games.They all end up with goofy movements like that no matter how hard devs try to remove it.

[Mononymouse]

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

Originally posted by Golden Snowflake:

mate, spears are balanced.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Mordhau/comments/bxdo92/spear_god/

Eh,that is why I stay away from duel servers in all melee combat games.They all end up with retarded movements like that no matter how hard devs go to remove it.

Lmao. yeah, dueling starts out as a fun pastime, but as the games progress, it always gets to the weirdest movements, etc, always win. Jumping in shooters wasn't much of a thing back in COD4:MW but nowadays it is legit in every game i see... any method to get your opponent to second guess his predictions i guess...

[Rivers]

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

I was testing spears the other day and you can drag a stab and hit multiple enemys. Surely that can't be intended?

So spears can also do sweeping attacks for full damage and aren't limited to single target like you'd think.Other weapons you guys hate I.E 2h swords etc can also do it btw.

Realism aside even from a game play stand point spears are stupid and have the best of everything.They are broken/buggy end of story.

spears how they should be from a balance stand point.
Pros:
Long range,high single target damage,good in groups since you can stab around team mates,fairly fast.Alt grip somewhat negates most cons at the cost of making its pros worse.
Cons:
Useless at close range,swing is useless,only single target,need secondary weapon to be effective at close range.

Also for losing the abilty to hit up close they should be made cheaper in points so make them 7 down from 10 since they would have to have a secondary.

The above isn't even going to make spears bad just balanced since right now they have zero cons besides having a useless swing.

The swing isn't useless when aimed, 30~ish damage wide arc slash is nothing to sneeze at when every enemy on the field expects you to spam thrust.

And it is a 10 point weapon specifically to balance out the fact that they made it almost as good as it really is so no 3/3/3 spear formations appear.

The thrust issues aren't specific to the spear though so nerfing it while doing nothing about the actual problem is beoynd pointless, only leading the a blizzard of nerfs (pun intended).

[TotallynotaBot]

Originally posted by Evito Cruor:

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

I was testing spears the other day and you can drag a stab and hit multiple enemys. Surely that can't be intended?

So spears can also do sweeping attacks for full damage and aren't limited to single target like you'd think.Other weapons you guys hate I.E 2h swords etc can also do it btw.

Realism aside even from a game play stand point spears are stupid and have the best of everything.They are broken/buggy end of story.

spears how they should be from a balance stand point.
Pros:
Long range,high single target damage,good in groups since you can stab around team mates,fairly fast.Alt grip somewhat negates most cons at the cost of making its pros worse.
Cons:
Useless at close range,swing is useless,only single target,need secondary weapon to be effective at close range.

Also for losing the abilty to hit up close they should be made cheaper in points so make them 7 down from 10 since they would have to have a secondary.

The above isn't even going to make spears bad just balanced since right now they have zero cons besides having a useless swing.

The swing isn't useless when aimed, 30~ish damage wide arc slash is nothing to sneeze at when every enemy on the field expects you to spam thrust.

And it is a 10 point weapon specifically to balance out the fact that they made it almost as good as it really is so no 3/3/3 spear formations appear.

The thrust issues aren't specific to the spear though so nerfing it while doing nothing about the actual problem is beoynd pointless, only leading the a blizzard of nerfs (pun intended).

Oh cmon don't split heirs you know exactly what I meant.

You wouldn't have 3/3/3 spearman since they would be forced to take a 2point secondary if they had a dead zone unless they wanted to be lunch for any shorter weapons at close range that is.

I've repeated over and over that I know thrust dragging is not spear specific and I still want it gone for everyone.I do not consider its removal a nerf to anything,I think of it as a fix to a bug that has no business being in game and consider using it an exploit.I really cant see it being intended to be that way but the devs aren't the sharpest knifes in the draw so it might be,who knows.They don't reply to this forum so we may never know.

[Rivers]

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

Originally posted by Evito Cruor:

The swing isn't useless when aimed, 30~ish damage wide arc slash is nothing to sneeze at when every enemy on the field expects you to spam thrust.

And it is a 10 point weapon specifically to balance out the fact that they made it almost as good as it really is so no 3/3/3 spear formations appear.

The thrust issues aren't specific to the spear though so nerfing it while doing nothing about the actual problem is beoynd pointless, only leading the a blizzard of nerfs (pun intended).

Oh cmon don't split heirs you know exactly what I meant.

You wouldn't have 3/3/3 spearman since they would be forced to take a 2point secondary if they had a dead zone unless they wanted to be lunch for any shorter weapons at close range that is.

I've repeated over and over that I know thrust dragging is not spear specific and I still want it gone for everyone.I do not consider its removal a nerf to anything,I think of it as a fix to a bug that has no business being in game and consider using it an exploit.I really cant see it being intended to be that way but the devs aren't the sharpest knifes in the draw so it might be,who knows.They don't reply to this forum so we may never know.

I have to disagree on the devs' motivations and competence, they obviously do care but some of these things are still in these games because coding a good melee system isn't easy.
They obviously care about these things as they've improved vs their competition in major ways and are still making changes.

And they've specifically pointed out that the point blank stabs are to simulate the real life ability to shift your grib on the fly which you can't fluidly do in a game. You can test this theory out fairly quickly with a broomhandle yourself and watching a few manuscripts at Wiktenauer.


The real problem that arises from these is the relative effect from fast windups on long thrusting weapons, where it feels like it becomes an instant thrust weapon. How to balance or fix this issue would be greatly appreciated by many, but making polearms useless when they cannot shift their point quickly to prevent you from closing would be utterly unfair and destroy their gameplay value.

[TotallynotaBot]

Originally posted by Evito Cruor:

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

Oh cmon don't split heirs you know exactly what I meant.

You wouldn't have 3/3/3 spearman since they would be forced to take a 2point secondary if they had a dead zone unless they wanted to be lunch for any shorter weapons at close range that is.

I've repeated over and over that I know thrust dragging is not spear specific and I still want it gone for everyone.I do not consider its removal a nerf to anything,I think of it as a fix to a bug that has no business being in game and consider using it an exploit.I really cant see it being intended to be that way but the devs aren't the sharpest knifes in the draw so it might be,who knows.They don't reply to this forum so we may never know.

And they've specifically pointed out that the point blank stabs are to simulate the real life ability to shift your grib on the fly which you can't fluidly do in a game. You can test this theory out fairly quickly with a broomhandle yourself and watching a few manuscripts at Wiktenauer.

Yes you can do that in game already with R.That would allow closer stabs (still not point blank) with my system.It still would be more ideal to take a secondary.The only weapon in game that should be able to stab point blank is the dagger imo.Also half swording etc obviously but it would still take at least pressing R to have the ability to do so.You know a little skill and thinking rather than spamming mousewheel up.

Its not hard to code.Mount and blade had most of what I suggest,other than age of chiv (very old HL2 mod) mount and blade was the first of its kind and was programmed by a few chimps in a cellar.

I question the devs competence because of the maps,horses,server browser,stab dragging.To be honest there competence and more importantly integrity is yet to be seen.They may just release the content they didn't have time to add at launch (because it was rushed and half baked) and be done with the game after making millions between 11 people we just do not know yet.

They did listen when it came to fixing shields being broken tho.

I'm not sure why you defend spears so much.They are easily the best weapon in game and are clearly buggy animation and mechanic wise.I'm not sure why anyone would be opposed to fixes.

[Mononymouse]

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

Oh cmon don't split heirs you know exactly what I meant.

Im onto you buddy O_O

[Rivers]

Originally posted by Son of Sigmar:

Originally posted by Evito Cruor:

And they've specifically pointed out that the point blank stabs are to simulate the real life ability to shift your grib on the fly which you can't fluidly do in a game. You can test this theory out fairly quickly with a broomhandle yourself and watching a few manuscripts at Wiktenauer.

Yes you can do that in game already with R.That would allow closer stabs (still not point blank) with my system.It still would be more ideal to take a secondary.The only weapon in game that should be able to stab point blank is the dagger imo.Also half swording etc obviously but it would still take at least pressing R to have the ability to do so.You know a little skill and thinking rather than spamming mousewheel up.

Its not hard to code.Mount and blade had most of what I suggest,other than age of chiv (very old HL2 mod) mount and blade was the first of its kind and was programmed by a few chimps in a cellar.

I question the devs competence because of the maps,horses,server browser,stab dragging.To be honest there competence and more importantly integrity is yet to be seen.They may just release the content they didn't have time to add at launch (because it was rushed and half baked) and be done with the game after making millions between 11 people we just do not know yet.

They did listen when it came to fixing shields being broken tho.

I'm not sure why you defend spears so much.They are easily the best weapon in game and are clearly buggy animation and mechanic wise.I'm not sure why anyone would be opposed to fixes.

There are problems certainly, but you haven't demonstrated a single convincing reason why we should be viewing the devs with such a level of distrust until given cause.

And i disagree with nerfing the spear until the actual mechanics issues with them are fixed that affect more than just the spear.

Third i'd recommend people start asking for the removal of hafted cuts, ie the shaft of the weapon shouldn't injure to make those weapons more rooted in skill. Or even release animation damage scaling to where it is during the release.