Why is AI so dumb?

[DmAnd]

They just walk up to me and follow my weapon like a dog being led around with a treat.
Its not even fun anymore.

[SmallbutDeadly]

they just stare at my longsword as it is heading straight for their neck its not even funny

[Mingdug]

I feel like the heavily armored enemies feel a bit more "natural" walking towards you like that, but leather or worse armored enemies just die by walking into my rapier.

[SiEgE]

Originally posted by DmAnd:

They just walk up to me and follow my weapon like a dog being led around with a treat.
Its not even fun anymore.

Lets say it this way - "it is not easy to control an NPC". Just remember Skyrim/Oblivion NPC memes. Now multiply that by the fact that you also need to consider their physical state, like lying on the ground, flying across the sky, being punctured and etc.
I'm honestly amazed by what was accomplished already. Getting it even better is already close to a miracle.
I'm fairly sure, each "mental" state of the NPC has a web of interconnections and checks with each bone in their bodies, and has more code there, than for the AI itself.

Seeing the AI in B&S is like being in 1886, and seeing your first car ever. Yes, it is janky, and partially impractical, but it'll be long before the scale of the invention is truly understood.

[Mingdug]

Originally posted by SiEgE:

Originally posted by DmAnd:

They just walk up to me and follow my weapon like a dog being led around with a treat.
Its not even fun anymore.

Lets say it this way - "it is not easy to control an NPC". Just remember Skyrim/Oblivion NPC memes. Now multiply that by the fact that you also need to consider their physical state, like lying on the ground, flying across the sky, being punctured and etc.
I'm honestly amazed by what was accomplished already. Getting it even better is already close to a miracle.

They weren't intelligent a few updates ago but they weren't this dumb, they literally walk up to your face and then swing which damages even though the full swing didn't happen, and if you grab their arm they just swing and hurt you anyways. They get stuck on stairs now too which didn't happen before.

[Doomkat]

Originally posted by Mingdug:

Originally posted by SiEgE:

Lets say it this way - "it is not easy to control an NPC". Just remember Skyrim/Oblivion NPC memes. Now multiply that by the fact that you also need to consider their physical state, like lying on the ground, flying across the sky, being punctured and etc.
I'm honestly amazed by what was accomplished already. Getting it even better is already close to a miracle.

They weren't intelligent a few updates ago but they weren't this dumb, they literally walk up to your face and then swing which damages even though the full swing didn't happen, and if you grab their arm they just swing and hurt you anyways. They get stuck on stairs now too which didn't happen before.

I think the getting stuck on stairs is more of a problem with the stairs than the AI, since they can pathfind onto/through some doors and stairs but not others.

[DmAnd]

Originally posted by SiEgE:

Originally posted by DmAnd:

They just walk up to me and follow my weapon like a dog being led around with a treat.
Its not even fun anymore.

Lets say it this way - "it is not easy to control an NPC". Just remember Skyrim/Oblivion NPC memes. Now multiply that by the fact that you also need to consider their physical state, like lying on the ground, flying across the sky, being punctured and etc.
I'm honestly amazed by what was accomplished already. Getting it even better is already close to a miracle.
I'm fairly sure, each "mental" state of the NPC has a web of interconnections and checks with each bone in their bodies, and has more code there, than for the AI itself.

Seeing the AI in B&S is like being in 1886, and seeing your first car ever. Yes, it is janky, and partially impractical, but it'll be long before the scale of the invention is truly understood.

They used to be much better to fight against back in the day. I'm wondering if the physics and AI were questified.
When people talk about a PCVR game being questified, they are usually referring to a visual aspect, i think we have a much deeper problem here and the guts of the game have been downgraded over the years and the result is this horribly dumb ai and a quest game

[DeadlyKittin]

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

[Mingdug]

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

What do you know? Only a dev would know that just like only a dev could make a chicken buyable.

[DeadlyKittin]

Originally posted by Mingdug:

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

What do you know? Only a dev would know that just like only a dev could make a chicken buyable.

What do i know?

I'm the Community Manager for Warpfrog (I've taken over Barons position as it, he is now PR Manager)
you can search anywhere on steam, on our discord, and our subreddit, NOTHING was "questified", you can think it was, but we have always said, that PCVR doesnt get enough love and we will always make games for PCVR first and foremost, not the Quest headsets.

KospY has always said he will never sellout to Meta because of how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ they are to developers and wants to make sure his team(including me) is taken care of properly.

You can ask any dev on discord if anything was "questified" and youll get the same answer i just gave you.

[𝓟 𝓲 𝓷 𝓴 𝓲 𝓮]

Yeah I had the same thoughts, I really wish they somehow improves the AI to be a bit more responsive, I just hope now that 1.0 hit that modders will somehow fix them.

[DmAnd]

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

Why are they so dumb now? They used to be able to use the blasters in the star wars mod as well. I have not checked that mod in a long time, maybe they can use the blasters again.

I think the AI needs some serious attention

[DmAnd]

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

I believe you when you say this.
If it were anyone else i would question it. I'm just trying to figure out what could have happened with the AI

[DeadlyKittin]

Originally posted by DmAnd:

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

no, nothing was "questified"
PCVR is our baby, and always comes first, we port to nomad, not nomad to PCVR.

Why are they so dumb now? They used to be able to use the blasters in the star wars mod as well. I have not checked that mod in a long time, maybe they can use the blasters again.

I think the AI needs some serious attention

Theyve always been "dumb", i think youre forgetting how dumb most VR AI is.

Bonelabs/Boneworks AI is literally just a zombie that swings its arm at you and trips over itself most of the time, the gun NPCs are easy to make in that game because they dont have animations at all other than "reload" or "get to cover".

BattleTalents NPCs aren't physics based how ours are. so their NPCs "look and act better" because they arent calculating physics how ours are.

I cannot speak for Hellsplit or other VR Fighting games though.

---------------------------

""" They used to be able to use the blasters in the star wars mod as well. I have not checked that mod in a long time, maybe they can use the blasters again."""

this I'm not too sure on, we had a "gun style" brain for the AI for a while, but im honestly not sure why its been removed other than performance reasons. (that and no NPCs in game.. use guns haha)

HuJohner, on Nexus iirc, made a mod to fix the blaster AI btw! Not for 1.0 of course, but for 12.3, and i couldn't imagine it'll be hard to fix.
Or KingO/Alex will add it directly to TOR.

The AI has always been a hard part for us, not because we dont want to "fix it" but mostly because its *extremely* hard to make AI good (though them getting too close iirc is an issue we're still looking into)

It's hard to make fun, yet difficult AI, and time consuming. Our AI dev worked on 2h weap NPCs and it was just super complicated to the point where the time and effort would've delayed updates for years

But of course, AI mods will become better since future updates (shouldn't) break mods, allowing mod makers to make great mods (I mean Palpatine/Ronan on nexus made a 2h npc mod, its janky as ♥♥♥♥, but it works)

[DmAnd]

Originally posted by DeadlyKittin:

Originally posted by DmAnd:

Why are they so dumb now? They used to be able to use the blasters in the star wars mod as well. I have not checked that mod in a long time, maybe they can use the blasters again.

I think the AI needs some serious attention

Theyve always been "dumb", i think youre forgetting how dumb most VR AI is.

Bonelabs/Boneworks AI is literally just a zombie that swings its arm at you and trips over itself most of the time, the gun NPCs are easy to make in that game because they dont have animations at all other than "reload" or "get to cover".

BattleTalents NPCs aren't physics based how ours are. so their NPCs "look and act better" because they arent calculating physics how ours are.

I cannot speak for Hellsplit or other VR Fighting games though.

---------------------------

""" They used to be able to use the blasters in the star wars mod as well. I have not checked that mod in a long time, maybe they can use the blasters again."""

this I'm not too sure on, we had a "gun style" brain for the AI for a while, but im honestly not sure why its been removed other than performance reasons. (that and no NPCs in game.. use guns haha)

HuJohner, on Nexus iirc, made a mod to fix the blaster AI btw! Not for 1.0 of course, but for 12.3, and i couldn't imagine it'll be hard to fix.
Or KingO/Alex will add it directly to TOR.

The AI has always been a hard part for us, not because we dont want to "fix it" but mostly because its *extremely* hard to make AI good (though them getting too close iirc is an issue we're still looking into)

It's hard to make fun, yet difficult AI, and time consuming. Our AI dev worked on 2h weap NPCs and it was just super complicated to the point where the time and effort would've delayed updates for years

But of course, AI mods will become better since future updates (shouldn't) break mods, allowing mod makers to make great mods (I mean Palpatine/Ronan on nexus made a 2h npc mod, its janky as ♥♥♥♥, but it works)

[Gunfreak]

I wish the AI would come after me. What's the point of having all this stuff to climb on when the AI can't come after you. I understand they'll never be able to climb ropes. But it would be cool of they could do basic jumps and climb boxes and walls to come after you. So you can get three musketeer style combat. Fighting all over the map.
Also basic head defence for the AI. Not only will they run into your pointy sticks. But they are incapable of defending their head. Handed axe against enemies with no head armor is no combat at all. Chop chop, all enemies are dead.