Drizzt's stats are wrong

[PowerSworder]

Part of the reason that Drizzt is getting outperformed by so many other dps champions is because he has terrible stats! (and therefore doesn't qualify for a bunch of buffs).

In the books, he's intelligent, wise, quite charasmatic and very agile. Yet in the game, Catti-bri has 17 intelligence and Drizzt only has 12?! Remember that Drizzt is supposed to be the hero and Catti-bri is just the sidekick, yet four of her stats are better than his!

Here's a link to an official wizards of the coast character sheet for Drizzt:

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010117d

Male drow Ftr10/Bbn1/Rgr5
Str 13, Dex 20, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 17, Cha 14

Which pretty accurately describes him as RA Salvatore wrote him in the Dark Elf series. He starts as a fighter in the underdark, becomes a barbarian (when he goes feral), then retrains as a ranger when he goes to the surface. Large sections of the books are devoted to his thoughtful introspections, so having high int and wis scores reflects that.

And the fluff text from the character description on the official site (Dated 25th April 2018):

http://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/story/heroes/drizzt-dourden

"Drizzt is also an excellent deductive thinker, with a steady, logical mind that never folds under pressure, though he will sometimes rely on instincts in critical situations.

On a day-to-day basis, Drizzt is a stoic, calm, and serious individual, but he’s always thinking—thinking about his place in the world, the value of his friendships, and the truth of his elf’s longevity that will see him outlive all of his closest friends."

That's not the behaviour of someone with only 12 intelligence! :-)

[Spin-Man]

The desire to give NPC's absurdly good stats was prevalent in early D&D and not so much in the current edition. If you look at the first place Drizzt was statted up (as a Mary Sue, for sure), it does not match even remotely with what any character would reasonably have. The new stats provided by WotC don't match the character that well either, but they're better, and not bad enough to warrant repeated complaints. Regardless, his stats in this game are subject to WotC's approval, and this is not a productive place to complain about it.

He doesn't need to get everyone's buffs, and altering his values to compensate for the lack of those buffs may unbalance him in the other direction with the release of new champions that don't rely on those stats. (Case in point, Nrakk buffs much better than Hitch if your primary DPS has low CHA.)

Side note: Drizzt should not have high Charisma. In the books, he fails repeatedly to convince anyone of anything, or to win over anyone to his ideals. The only reason anyone trusts him at all is because they have witnessed his behavior over long periods of time. He has multiple crises of conscience, so it's safe to say he is regularly portrayed as a character with below average Charisma. He also has not been portrayed as unusually strong and high Strength is useless for a 5E character with high Dexterity who uses scimitars. His Strength is fine, and wouldn't make him a less effective character at the table.

[PowerSworder]

Originally posted by Verethragna:

I have stated twice that the literary characters would have perfect stats if you were to try to accurately reflect them on a character sheet, specifically because they are Mary Sues.

Just because you keep repeating the same nonsense, it doesn't mean it's true. Drizzt isn't strong or particularly tough in the novels, which is reflected in the stats I quoted from the official website. A D&D fighter with perfect stats would start with 18 str/18 dex/18 con.

Originally posted by Verethragna:

I just question as to why you feel they should beyond him being the most popular Forgotten Realms character

1) He's more challenging to acquire than any other champion released so far, the event ones just being time-locked which is annoying but not hard.
2) In the lore he's one of the most powerful fighters in the Forgotten Realms.
3) He's the most famous character in any D&D setting, not just the Forgotten Realms (as well as being the most popular).

Point 3 isn't trivial. Everyone was thrilled when they added Drizzt to the game. How excited do you think everyone was when they realised he was actually useless? Disappointing your customers in such a fashion makes no business sense whatsoever.

In any game like this, there is always one character which is a better dps than all the others. With the current Meta, Strix is the best, but why? It's a character from a wotc livestream... could that be any more obscure? I'd never even heard of her, or the player behind her before.

Compare that to Drizzt who's been the star of a dozen novels, has featured in multiple D&D campaign books, and has appeared in half-a-dozen computer games.

There's simply no comparison... Drizzt is the star of the show and Codename is shooting themselves in the foot leaving him languishing in the state he's in right now.

[PowerSworder]

Originally posted by Spin-Man:

The desire to give NPC's absurdly good stats was prevalent in early D&D and not so much in the current edition.

That's because in 2nd Edition D&D you needed crazy-high numbers to get bonuses. Here's the strength table from 2nd Edition as an example:

https://www.tor.com/2016/03/04/find-out-what-your-strength-rating-is-in-dungeons-dragons/

You need 16 just to get +1 damage...

Originally posted by Spin-Man:

If you look at the first place Drizzt was statted up (as a Mary Sue, for sure), it does not match even remotely with what any character would reasonably have.

No. He has high numbers, but they aren't optimised for a fighter in any version of the game. In all the versions up to 5th edition, a fighter needed high str/dex/con. In 5th edition you need str OR dex + con. 14 or 15 con (either version of Drizzt) gives only +2 bonus, which is not perfect.

And regarding it not matching what anyone would have... Rubbish. Only if you use the tedious point-buy method, which just results in boring formulaic characters all made from the exact same cookie cutter. If you dice roll, anything's possible. I've DM'd a few games where players had crazy luck rolling characters. If you play enough, you'll see multiple 18's crop up, which obviously doesn't include racial bonuses.

Besides, they've included Tyril, who obviously wasn't created by point-buy, because he's got 12 more ability points than Drizzt.

Originally posted by Spin-Man:

The new stats provided by WotC don't match the character that well either, but they're better

Are they? On the official site's description of Drizzt, they go on and on about how intelligent he is, how he keeps thinking about things all the time. 12 intelligence (a bit brighter than average), doesn't accurately reflect that.

[Spin-Man]

I've had my share of experience with rolling stats, even including friends in my teen years that would roll up literally dozens of sets of stats for a single character and pick the best one. Sets with multiple 18's and nothing under a 14 are something you could fill multiple pages with number sets and never see. Yet somehow, this describes nearly half the characters in the book where Drizzt was first statted up. The other half have other virtual impossibilities like 17 in all six stats, or three 18's and a single 9 to reflect their narrative weakness. And lest we forget, these characters come from the era of "3d6 for each stat in order," and none of the "4d6 seven times, dropping the lowest score and assigning as desired" funny business was supposedly allowed.

Drizzt is contemplative and intuitive (high Wisdom traits). He lacks guile and cunning, doesn't solve puzzles, never makes plans, barely ever uses his innate spellcasting, and takes forever to figure out how to use magic items. (How long did his bracers of speed mess him up before he finally figured out he could put them on his ankles?) High Wisdom and moderate Intelligence sound perfectly reasonable to me.

[djtoungengroove]

first off I have been playing dnd since 1980. I have been a fan of the forgotten realms since it first hit the shelves in its first box set. Similarily a fan of RASalvatore since The crystal shard first hit the shelves. Not only have I read every Drizzt novel I have read every forgotten realms novel and nearly every dnd novel printed or on ebook. If you want to be realistic about Drizzts stats in any edition except for strength and dexterity he is at least a 15 plus. Str 15 max and Dex 20 min. As far as lvl. and class go he is at the very least a fighter of whatever the current game max is plus 1. In game terms a dungeon master that wants to use Drizzt as an NPC must adjust him to fit his campaign. As far as Idle champions it is my opinion as a fan and out of respect for RASalvatore for every thing his books and the character of Drizzt have done for dnd in general, the forgotten realms and TSR and Wizards of the coast. Power him up some particularly beccause of how hard he is to aquire. As far as beta testing and fan feedback go I sugest Codename makes all the Drizzt fans out there happy because there are alot of us.

[D#]

I agree that Drizzt is very dissapointing. I am a new player who owns every single RA Salvatore book and even has a one signed. Even as a teenager his stats would be higher than most of the other characters. He was the top student outclassing every other drow in the city except his father. Hopefully they fix him because it would be nice to actually use him.

As a side note, somone should find the stats for Artemis and compare them since they are practically equals in fighting.

[Kotli]

I agree Drizzt stats seem wrong, Can we have a link to an offical DnD sheet showing this. BTW that Chris Perkins twitter sheet dont count as that clearly a personal edited version of Drizzt.
As such I give it as much validity as a sheet showing drizzt with full 20s and Drizzt being able to cast high level wizard druid and cleric spells.

[Verethragna]

Originally posted by Kotli:

I agree Drizzt stats seem wrong, Can we have a link to an offical DnD sheet showing this. BTW that Chris Perkins twitter sheet dont count as that clearly a personal edited version of Drizzt.
As such I give it as much validity as a sheet showing drizzt with full 20s and Drizzt being able to cast high level wizard druid and cleric spells.

It doesn't matter how valid you think it is, that is what Wizards of the Coast gave them to use. I don't know the reasoning behind it, but it is what it is.

[Count_Dandyman]

Issue here is that Drizzt from the novels is a total Mary-Sue and while it works there in a situation like this you just can't have him be on that same level. So there is always going to be a gap between his game version and the book one unless you decide to turn the game into "Drizzt destroys all evil in the realms while 30 useless heroes carry his bags".

Don't get me wrong I'm not putting down Salvatore's writing or the stories nor am I saying that he is the only famous character from the realms to fall into this state or that a game like that couldn't be fun. It's just that this isn't that game and things that work in one medium don't always translate well to others.

[D#]

I think your point would be better served if it wasnt a game that had stats representing the characters abilities, so there is a much stronger dissonance between percieved values from the books and the objectivly low values represented in game. The very fact that there is a past example of an offical character sheet with much higher stats also doesnt help his current iteration. Even in baulders gate (where minsc is from) he would kick the ♥♥♥♥ out of your entire party unless surrounded by summons and cheesed to death.

[PowerSworder]

Originally posted by Count_Dandyman:

Issue here is that Drizzt from the novels is a total Mary-Sue and while it works there in a situation like this you just can't have him be on that same level. So there is always going to be a gap between his game version and the book one unless you decide to turn the game into "Drizzt destroys all evil in the realms while 30 useless heroes carry his bags".

As I mentioned above, even Drizzt in the novels isn't perfect at everything. He's not that strong and he's not exceptionally tough... which are handy abilities for a melee fighter. Drow females are stronger than males, or at least they were in 2nd edition D&D when the character was created.

Regarding his in-game stats, Codename have set a precedent for characters with much higher stats. Tyril has the most in the game at 92, but Evelyn is a close second at 90. Both of these characters are total nobodies, that will bring no one to the game because they're just twitch-stream characters that a tiny fraction of people have heard of.

Drizzt is the superstar of D&D, well known and liked by a huge number of people. He doesn't have to kill everything in sight, but following in-game lore, his popularity, and that he's harder to acquire than the other champions, it makes sense that he should be the best dps character in the game. Instead we have Strix and Jamilah vying for dps top-slot... again total unknowns that nobody cares about.

It's baffling that he's currently so useless that he's unusable in your formation. Drizzt... who solos groups of giants and takes out huge demons is a gimp. It's nonsensical.

[Ueuelr Star8urst]

Going to necro this thread since Wulfgar has been released and I spent money on Drizzt and Companions gear as promised before.

Can you give us any update on Drizzt's future? At the moment with 4 epics and one golden epic, all other CotH well geared he and his companions are well out classed by random heroes with no particular synergy.

You are missing a huge opportunity, considering the amount of feedback already provided by many people, to attract more D&D fans and Drizzt fans to the game when the first thing they will notice is how bad their favorite heroes perform in the game.

The light of hope is very dim

[LostSoul]

Originally posted by Ueuelr Star8urst:

Going to necro this thread since Wulfgar has been released and I spent money on Drizzt and Companions gear as promised before.

Can you give us any update on Drizzt's future? At the moment with 4 epics and one golden epic, all other CotH well geared he and his companions are well out classed by random heroes with no particular synergy.

You are missing a huge opportunity, considering the amount of feedback already provided by many people, to attract more D&D fans and Drizzt fans to the game when the first thing they will notice is how bad their favorite heroes perform in the game.

The light of hope is very dim

Drizzt is a middle-of-the-pack DPS champion in a top-tier-buffer benchslot. Aside from him being turned into an equivalent top-tier buffer himself, the current game design has no way for him to ever be competitive. To be clear, they could do that by dramatically improving the potency and effects of Drizzt's companions buff. But it's doubtful that would be enough to turn him into a useful DPS champion...just another stat-stick champion in the party.

[PowerSworder]

Originally posted by Ueuelr Star8urst:

Going to necro this thread since Wulfgar has been released

I wonder if Codename actually thought that they'd done a good job with the Companions of the Hall?

It can't have come as a surprise that nobody is using Drizzt and co, because the characters are gimps and vastly outperformed by meta champions. It must still be weirdly anti-climactic to release Wulfgar as the vaunted final companion, only for it to be met by a disgusted and disinterested "Meh..." from the playerbase.

It's not like the developers weren't forewarned beforehand. I saw the Companions buff being carefully analysed and dismissed as useless long before Catti-brie and Wulfgar even came out.

[skryble]

This continues to be frustrating. Fix the innacurate stats block already; judgement and community feedback should vastly outweigh stats handed down by fiat. The longer Barrowin goes unchanged and Drizzt limps along, the more faith I lose in Codename.

I bought starter packs when the game first came out, and used to have faith - but devs can't be bothered to balance the game on schedule. Barrowin should have been nerfed week 2 to fix hammer stacking, and Drizzt has limped along since release. Codename seems spineless - they don't want to stand up to rabid fans with much-needed nerfs, and they're equally unlikley to take issue with WoTC, worshippping the boot on their necks. I pity their position, for sure, but canadian polite passivity witll be their downfall.

These seem like basic, easily patchable things - maybe requiring half an hour of discussion, not a year. codename please, you're embarassing yourself. I know the tanking and healing and everything else update is coming Soon(tm), but this itself is a problem. I want Idle Champions to be an organic, living game, with monthly QoL tweaks and updates. It should not take a year to fix Krond's specialization item situation, or make Gromma useful, etc. The meta will shift after the tanking and healing update, but I'd rather there be small changes every week than everything rolled into one.

"Regis and Drizzt have the same dexterity? (19) Nope, Drizzt is much more agile.
Regis and Bruenor have the same constituion? (14) Nope... lol... Bruenor is way tougher.
Catti-brie and Bruenor have the same strength? (15) Nope, Bruenor is stronger (he's a blacksmith).
Catti-brie is stronger and more intelligent than Drizzt? Nope, of course not."

</rant>