My first ToMT

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

Seems going well, we're 2 days in, everybody has 300-500 DPS.
Sucks that I chose Tyril as champion, he's missing in 3-4 Patron quests now. Makes zero sense to have to do ToMT with usual groups but have a fake leader appointed.

ToMT DPS seems to be the sum of the quests + a peak DPS. All obtained within the trials? Or can my groups outside ToMT contribute as well (apart from Zariel ToMT perks).
Thanks!

I had to start this group on my own with randoms on sunday. There was one 4/5 group where the host hadn't picked a champion.

[kab_reg]

No, only in the Trials.

As a rule, the first 4 or 5 levels of ToMT are relatively easy. It's more difficult to find a full group for them than to clear them unless you get the misfortune to be in a party with multiple moochers and/or glitched participants. CNE cannot be bothered to fix the infamous "zero" problem for nearly 3 years :(.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

What happens in ToMT stays in ToMT, meaning only quest DPS, scrolls and "free play" pushes can increase that DPS. But just pushing as far as you can on the first day (even if you have to do more than one run) can be enough to tackle the trials solo, and it should make beating the trials easier in a group, but I bet nobody takes more than the minimum required effort in those, since the usual tip is "just do the quests and you're fine."

I was told that to solo Tiamat in its lowest level you needed to have at least 400 DPS by day 4... So I get 450-550 DPS on day 1 (z900+ on a first run z1200 on a second run,) which lets me clear the trial in five days (or six if I get less than 500 DPS on the first day,) making it possible to have Jarlaxle available for any patron challenges I may still be missing that week.

[Flooz]

What (normal) dps do you need to reach to be able to get to z1000 in ToMT?

I have ToMT available for quite some time but just couldn't be bothered. However, if I could solo it, I might give it a shot.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

Originally posted by Flooz:

What (normal) dps do you need to reach to be able to get to z1000 in ToMT?

Less than 300, like most everywhere else. It's harder to do on a first run ToMT, but not impossible, with enough champions with good buffs. Edit: The lowest I can get through z1000 is around 280 DPS, but it needs a lot of precise Ultimate timing to get through the 980+ bosses.

Since my worst formations nowadays can hit 250 DPS, I don't have any trouble breaking z1000 in Tiamat. I just grab Jim's buddies (who change whenever I find a new "buddy" who outperforms one of the old ones) and tackle the trial. And if Jim isn't available (and the DM is not nice enough to make him available) I just switch DPS to Zorbu, D'hani or Birdsong.

[kab_reg]

IIRC, enemy health progression in ToMT is approximately the same as in Avernus.

[Flooz]

I think I'll try one in a bit and see how it goes. All patron quests are finished so missing out on one champion isn't an issue for the rest of the week.

[Kyouko Tsukino]

The absolute lowest DPS I've beaten the easiest version of the Trial was 195. It's recommended to always try for more than 200, which is why go "no kill like overkill" and hit 450+.

So if you're closer to 200 than 400, you're very likely to have whoever you choose for ToMT stuck in there for seven whole days. Jarlaxle can help with that as his "skill" is to increase damage, but I've also beaten it on day 6 with Makos, who's a few hundred ilvls below Jarl and doesn't even contribute damage (but gives more scales, which seems like a fair trade.)

[Flooz]

I'm at 200 dps at z300 so I guess that's ok as a start. I have no idea what I'm doing but I'll go as far as I can and see what gives.

Better I test and, at worst, ruin my own attempt than join another and ruin theirs.

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

So I understood correctly that for Bahamut's favor farming days 3+ make not much sense because extra limitations prevent max group DPS to happen?

[Kyouko Tsukino]

I should clarify, you want BUD at 200. The DPS on top of the screen during an adventure is 50% lies, 50% falsehoods. The BUD tells you what your biggest hit has been lately, and it has a tendency to always go up as your champions gain levels during the adventure, so it's the best indication for it. In the Tiamat UI you want the "Additional Total" to say at least 200 DPS.

For example, my current Tiamat run (started early today) is at 317 Additional DPS, and with Jarl's bonuses and scroll bonuses, that goes to 506 DPS.

Besides that "Additional Total" hitting at least 200 DPS, doing every daily run for Tiamat is all you need to beat the Trials. Missing even one can really set you back - which is part of why I go for overkill DPS on day 1, so if I miss one day for personal reasons, it won't be the end of the run (already tested this purposefully missing a Day 6 daily run and still managed to beat it on day 7.)

Originally posted by Fjonda:

So I understood correctly that for Bahamut's favor farming days 3+ make not much sense because extra limitations prevent max group DPS to happen?

The extra limitations make it progressively harder to get a good BUD after day 1. If you want to ensure you have the most favor from Tiamat, do multiple runs on day 1. I tend to aim for Bahamut Favor of at least e40 - which makes Day 2 and above's goals much easier than just doing one run, getting e12 favor, and then struggling through the six next days (which is what I bet happens to a lot of people doing these runs in multiplayer, and why "just do the minimum" is the usual advice.)

[kab_reg]

It's almost impossible to ruin ToMT campaign at Normal difficulty.

[Kampfschwein Fjonda]

Yes, it is. My Tyril is free now. I'm 3rd DPS place in the group and quite happy. Via group play the Trial was completed much more quickly and we even got a tiny bonus on scales.
So is doing ToMT in an average group (maybe even with an afk) not always strictly better than doing it solo? From what I read on this board, tons of people just solo it, but why?

[kab_reg]

In general, soloing ToMT is a bad idea. The main reason to do ToMT is to get scales, and by soloing it you automatically lock yourself into the lowest difficulties with VERY low scale rewards. I did T10 PUG ToMT for about 1.5 years, and there were only 2 or 3 fails, one due to my own misclick :(.

[Flooz]

I'm doing solo checking it out for the first time and also because, like Sartre said: "Hell is other people" which is why I'm not too fond of anything multiplayer, especially in these sort of games.

[kab_reg]

In most cases, the party on T10 can carry one or two under-performing members without too much difficulty.

An example of such party: https://i.postimg.cc/fTQkJ3vL/20230418173935-1.jpg