Strong core

[thegrassyknoll]

Is it really? It is EXACTLY the same as the other core bonus wise. Except one node: the plus charisma damage is gone and plus melee damage in its place. Not to mention it takes 3 levels even to automate the resets. So this core is actually weaker since it takes longer to get going! So is the default core i am using now called the "strong core+2"? or "stronger core" ? lol

At least move the automation to level 1 and/or lower the price. Either way, while using one the other essentially stops leveling.

I can see it now, the third core will cost 1 million and be exactly the same as these 2.

Offline progress is sooooo slow, it is totally debatable if a second core even does anything noticable. I mean takes soooo long to progress offline, you only need check on it or switch anything every 8-10 hours as is( assuming you can get to level 400ish or higher).

The bonuses of ALL cores should multiply into onscreen party. Else what difference does leveling up a second core even do? You can only advance to wall with one party anyhow, since the other will be weak from all your best guys being in the first party.

Even if all these cores multiply into onscreen party as i hope, it is doubtful it be enough to get me any further than i already was 3-5 months ago when they started nerfing EVERYTHING, most notably the debuffs.

[Coo Coo Pigeon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the free connectors +100% already in place are what makes the core stronger in combination with wider paths to get your flow up high easily so you can can connect >4 flow easier to all nodes.
Thought that was the whole deal making it strong?

[thegrassyknoll]

Think of the logic here as i exposed many holes in the logic in the OP. For one, you can only use 1 core at a time. So by the time you save up 500k and actually open level 3 on the "strong core" . You main core will be pretty darn good. Having a second core maxxed out to purple 4 does not matter at all game-play-wise. You can only use 1 or the other. So whatever, trtansefer all your parts over to the "strong core", its still the same amount bonuses numbers-wise. AND i say again, you can only use 1 to max effect anyhow.

So anyone who spends real $$$$money to buy chests to max out second core is just being robbed. Unless they make the cores stackable to 1 party. That is the solution here.

About the 100% connectors you mentioned. How bad will you need them after 35-75 days of saving 500K plus 3-7 days to level 3? Then a month to unlock rest of levels. By then your first core liekly be pretty much done. And they 2 cores are the SAME bonuses-wise.( except charisma node for melee node ). See the problem here? Hence they have to make them stack.

[Soteria]

My take is similar to Coo Coo's--the layout looks way easier to maximize, and there are all those 100% * 100% connectors that will boost output by a crazy amount. Heck, using those you can max out a few nodes only using only white pipes.

But sure, I get your point about only being able to actively use one at a time. I'm hoping offline mode itself will get some improvements once they finish the beta.

[thegrassyknoll]

Yes i hope things improve as well soteria.

After 2-3 months to save second core and level it, i will bet you money that your first core is 90%plus purple anyhow. So whether or not the second core is "better or stronger" from connections matters not.

As of exact current state of this game. All the second core does is save you from a maual reset every 8-10 hours. Just pointing that out. Now am i willing to pay 500k for this luxury? Yes in the end, i too am saving for that core like you fellas. Plus as Soteria pointed out, you hope things get better, maybe this conversation will help lead them there as well.

And by time we have second core, i pretty sure we have enough spare pieces to cruise through second core, hence the "strong" or " better connectors" matters not.---By saying and exposing a flaw, they will nerf the amount and quality of pieces we recieve no doubt!

Lets all post pictures of our first core the day you buy second "strong"core.

[Soteria]

Ohhhhh I just noticed. It is objectively stronger. Look at the output of the nodes toward the bottom. The damage ones go up to 2400% and the gold to 960%. So assuming you counted correctly that the number of nodes is the same, you actually do get a better product.

Edit: I'm just now noticing that not all the nodes are the same in the first core, either. But a lot more of them provide 1800% or 2400% on the strong core.

[thegrassyknoll]

I havent added up all the exact %s. Feel free and enlighten me to exact amounts of both cores. Because of diminshing returns and additives in this game, i guessing the translation into actual wall levels gained would be less than 5. But please enlighten me. I mean whats 1800% to 1600% in the grand scheme of a few nodes. Either way, one way to find out. lets add em up

[Soteria]

I'm seeing:

Weak:
10 * 16
4 * 18
1 * 24
---------
256

Strong:
6 * 16
5 * 18
4 * 24
---------
282

So, 2.6e04% difference, additively. Or maybe a better comparison is that it gives a 10% larger boost.

Edit:
Also, the strong core looks like it has slightly less gold find, but it has more hp (720 vs 480)

[thegrassyknoll]

I just mathed it too. Yes the "all damage" checks out. Look again, hitpoints are identical.Also notice level 15 on "strong" has only 1 node, not 2. Hence the 1 extra goldfind find node on default. And of course no charisma mode and instead melee node. But it is hardly "stronger" lol. To say "objectively stronger" is a bit of a stretch lol.

So differences= 10% more damage. but 15%ish% less gold( ithink 2880% vs. 3360%, someone else can math the % diifference). And trading one 2400% bonus for another in charisma vs. melee. Thats it. So "stronger", i think not. Math -wise you actually losing overall percentage points from the gold find deficit.

[Soteria]

Ah, you're right--I misread the top HP node on the standard core. But I'll stand by *objectively* stronger. 10% more damage is objectively stronger, even with a lower gold find, for all the reasons that a dps formation is stronger than a gold find formation. Sure, you might switch to gold find when you start Azaka farming, but I don't think there's any question that the strong core will help you get more favor.

2.82e05% damage & 2880% gold
vs
2.56e05% damage & 3360% gold

You can argue that you're losing 16% gold find bonus to gain 10% damage bonus, but remember how people play. Players who know what they're doing generally aren't rolling with gold find until they start Azaka farming.

[thegrassyknoll]

10% gain is pretty neglible, arguabley not even 1 wall level advanced. Just saying

Even if they decide to stack cores as in 1 core plus 1 core to 1 party. That would only be a times 2 multiplier, or double damage. That is a TON of resources for only double damage. Buying that many gold chests(1000) for 500k and 3 extra patron chests per week would likely give a greater bonus in terms of actual damage output. Or spend that 500k on feats for that matter for definetly a greater bonus. Kinda need some sort of direction of where this is all going else risk burning alot of resources for almost neglible gains in current game-state

[Soteria]

Look, I'm not saying I'm gonna go out and buy one tomorrow lol. I'm just saying it's objectively better, even though I agree that it's not by a lot. I think it will definitely be something long-timer players will get eventually, max out, and use, because every little bit helps, right? Think about how small of a bonus individual gold/patron chests give.

[thegrassyknoll]

I not arguing. It IS 10% better as we proved in our conversation. But all my other points/questions ring true in this discussion. 10% is so small that we just were debating sementics which isnt my intent. We both agree i sure that this is near nothing. Obviously i getting it because i hope they improve EVERYTHING about it. But without some constructive criticism they will change nothing.

And just for the record. i believe patron chests are the single greatest source of Damage output in this game( for me at endgame having gotten most everything else). Any purple item on a character you use doubles your damage. So 1 purple is worth 10 times the 10% bonus. I am slightly chapped that we using patron currency to get pipe pieces. In the immediate through long term, filling out 1 core with pipes is better( and kinda fun, i givem that:) ) than the purple items for event characters. But spending patron currency on pipes drags out the process of collecting purples for event characters.

By this logic of each event purple on a guy you use, being double damage. 1 purple item would be = a second full core even IF that core stacks with the first one. Look at the resource difference in that! So they NEED to make second core Mulitply ( like add 3-5 more e in damage) to first core, than apply to 1 party. And/Or improve offline gains. Hopefully soemthing of the sort occurs in the reasonable near future.

As is in current game state: 2nd core=most resource exhaustive minigame( yes its fun) in video game history! :) lol

[alo_obert]

Sorry... but.. Are you computing the total % right?

I mean... 10 * 1600 + 4 * 1800 + 1 * 2400 = 25600 = 2.56e4% (or x257 multiplier) and 6 * 1600 + 5 * 1800 + 4 * 2400 = 28200 = 2.82e4% (or x283 multiplier). Isn't it?

Also... this multipliers are in the order of 2^8, so you can expect a maximum of 8 ~ 9 Levels gain. If I'm not mistaken.

[thegrassyknoll]

Dude, we not debating the strength of having 1 core. We can see the value there. It is the bonuses of the "stronger" core vs. default core. Since you may only use 1 at a time whereas you would need the bonuses to max out wall distance.

Your math might be spot on for all i know, but how can we prove this since we have no idea how they calculate final damage. I have assumed that you always having to double previous number to double actual damage since everything in exponential percentages. So if 1 core is at 257, wouldnt the other have to be at 514 to double damage?Am i wrong here? For example if tyrils moonboom at +30 mil%, does this number not need to go to plus 60mil% to obtain double damage?Hence whenever you level up 100%, your damage doubles.

But since no one seems to know how they compute damage in this game and the amount of bugs/glitches. I have no Freaking idea how the final damage numbers end up how they do. EVery other game simply displays this and adds up itemized columns. Instead we get 3 pages of long confusing written description. But it doesnt even show most of the bonuses. ( ie. all champion) God only knows to calculate any final damage output in this game. _but hey now i am massively off topic

[SevenBlueSeven]

Well, after you did the maths. I would not purchase 'strong core' for half a million in gems. I think that the 'strong core' should be objectively stronger.