Why do the numbers look like this?

[slur slinging slasher]

All of a sudden they started ending with "e0#" instead of 'k', 'm', 'b', etc. I have no idea what it means now. :/
https://i.imgur.com/JcgkxPL.png

[Mobile Doll Cordelia]

That's scientific notation. You can turn it off in the Settings.

[Soul Reaver]

lol, it's the other way around, now you do know what those values mean
but, if you really want to go back to those who-knows-what-they-mean letters
menu -> setting -> uncheck Scientific Notation

[slur slinging slasher]

Originally posted by Milkman Dan:

That's scientific notation. You can turn it off in the Settings.

Thanks, I must've accidently hit a key that's binded to that setting.

[Soul Reaver]

Originally posted by DΛRK ♪:

Originally posted by Milkman Dan:

That's scientific notation. You can turn it off in the Settings.

Thanks, I must've accidently hit a key that's binded to that setting.

Yes, letter Y
I did not know it's possible to change it that way and at the same time, I've found a bug in game, related to notation switching :P

[Davide]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

lol, it's the other way around, now you do know what those values mean
but, if you really want to go back to those who-knows-what-they-mean letters
menu -> setting -> uncheck Scientific Notation

I actually don't understand the scientific notations lol.. for the standard numbers here's the meaning:

K = Kilo (Thousand)
M = Million
B = Billion
t = trillion
q = quadrillion
Q = Quintillion
s = sextillion
S = Septillion
o = octillion
n = nonillion
d = decillion
U = Undecillion
D = Duodecillion
T = Tredecillion
Qt = Quattuordecillion
Qd = Quindecillion
Sd = Sexdecillion
Sp = Septendecillion
O = Octodecillion
N = Nondecillion ? Novedecilion? Something like that
etcetera..
I don't really know latin, some words btw are kinda like Italian. I mean Italian comes from Latin so..


EDIT:
We don't even see the full numbers so yeah, who cares, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers

This is how they actually work

[Soul Reaver]

You don't have to tell me what's the idea behind those letters. I know that quite well, but ...

For metric prefixes we do have kilo, mega, etc ... but those end really fast. What's funny, is that this game uses k (kilo) for thousand, M (mega) for million, yet it uses B instead of G. I know, B for Billion, but that's kinda problematic you know? As Billion has two meanings in english - it can be both 1e9 (most popular meaning) and 1e12. That depends on where you live. It is the same for number names that follow. All of them have double meaning in terms of value.

Now, just tell me without looking at anything, which number is bigger, Qt or Qd? Or what number is 1Qt (I'm not asking for the name, but for value)? Maybe you do know, but I have no f... idea. If you tell me, that 1Qt equals 1e45, then I can even write this number down quite easily - it's one and 45 zeros.

People don't use those names and those "prefixes" (I don't think those "far" prefixes are official in any way) as nobody knows such numbers. It's much easier to know the value, if you present it numerically, hence the scientific notation. You can easily tell, that 1e13 is bigger than 1e12, exactly 10 times bigger. That's how the cookie crumbles :)

Of course, use whatever rings your bell. Devs give the chance to use both and that's great. I am happy that it's not just another game which uses letters only (which often differ between games, giving them even less of a meaning).

Edit:
As for naming convention this does seem latin. It's very similar to the way new elements are named in the periodic table, before they are given a final name.

[muljostpho]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

You don't have to tell me what's the idea behind those letters. I know that quite well, but ...

For metric prefixes we do have kilo, mega, etc ... but those end really fast. What's funny, is that this game uses k (kilo) for thousand, M (mega) for million, yet it uses B instead of G. I know, B for Billion, but that's kinda problematic you know? As Billion has two meanings in english - it can be both 1e9 (most popular meaning) and 1e12. That depends on where you live. It is the same for number names that follow. All of them have double meaning in terms of value.

G? I'm drawing a huge blank here on anything that that could possibly stand for in this context. I don't think I've ever heard of a "gillion". Not as a real number at least. Maybe as a joke word like "zillion".

I've heard of some regions having a different meaning for the word billion but I thought that the equivalent to our billion in that case was something like "billard" (probably spelled that wrong) and that there are also terms like "millard" and "trillard" and whatever the frell else mixed in between all the "-illion" words?

Anyway, yeah, this point:

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

Of course, use whatever rings your bell. Devs give the chance to use both and that's great. I am happy that it's not just another game which uses letters only (which often differ between games, giving them even less of a meaning).

I've tried a lot of the idle games here on Steam and I've seen inconsistencies in how different games abbreviate certain words. One game might have q and Q for quadrillion and quintillion, and later Qt and Qd for quattordecillion and quindecillion. Meanwhile, another game might have Qd and Qt for quadrillion and quintillion, and they run out of names and let it default to scientific notation before it ever reaches quattordecillion and quindecillion. But then maybe another game starts with the Qd and Qt and then later uses something like Qtd and Qnd for the others. Similar points for sextillion / septillion / sexdecillion / septendecillion.

There was one game that, if I recall correctly, used K, M, B, T the same as you'd expect to see used anywhere else (1K = 1000, 1M = 1000K, 1B = 1000K, 1T = 1000B) but then they start labeling them as AA, BB, CC, etc. and as far as I could tell their system was that 1AA = 100T, 1BB = 100AA, 1CC = 100BB, etc. Just makes you think "why?!?!"

Scientific is clear, concise, and consistent, for the most part. Notation might be slightly different sometimes. "e" vs "E". But the meaning in either case is always that the e or E means "times ten to the power of". XeY means "X * 10^Y". You can always tell at a glance that anything with a larger value after the e is the larger number. You don't even need to look at the part before the e unless the numbers you're comparing have the same value after the e.

[Davide]

SoulReaver, well... yeah long story short I was just chitchatting cause you said you didnt understand the meaning of that stuff and for me it comes natural. I never really had that kind of conversation with somebody outside my country so it was kinda fascinating, that's it, I didnt want to argue on wich method is the best to each his own. For me it comes natural that "QD" is lower than "QT" cause my language is one of those "latin languages" probably.

It's really all just about who conquered our countries centuries ago lol... Expecially in Europe we're full of different mini-cultures and we have lots of different ways to do the same things.

PS: I was just checking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers this btw, it answers everything. Sorta.

[Soul Reaver]

@Hel
I'm not into argue as well, to me that was just a discussion. You know how written text has no emotions in it - you can't really read the mood this way ;P

Anyway, this fast grow with just billion, trilliion ... comes from USA. They had it, europe had -lliards in between. Then somewhere around '70s UK switched to fast progression of numbers and ... here we are, most (not all) english-speaking countries have fast progress of numbers. That's probably related to Commonwealth and UKs influence on colonies

As for link - yes, I know of such list, but it still does not mean, that anybody is using those "high" (after say quintilion or a step or two higher) names.


@muljostpho

Originally posted by muljostpho:

G? I'm drawing a huge blank here on anything that that could possibly stand for in this context. I don't think I've ever heard of a "gillion". Not as a real number at least. Maybe as a joke word like "zillion".

Huge blank you say? :D And here I thought all the people here on steam should do know those. Really, never heared of giga- (G), tera- (T) and so on? I clearly wrote that I am talking about commonly used `metric prefixes`. That's what kilo- is.

Yes, in between two -llions comes a -lliard. American option uses thousand as a unit of growth, while european way (older) is growing by million, with thousands of -llions as -lliards. Strange that UK in the end switched to fast growth. That's the influence USA has ...

As for value naming, those A-Z, AA-ZZ, AAA-ZZZ are clearer to me than what we have here, because it is at least clear, which value is bigger and you can quite easily aproximate is it a lot of a difference or not e.g. you know that C is far from R and that K is much closer :D Still, whenever there is an option for numerics - I'm in :)

The funniest part though is that whoever makes an app with those more or less strange namings, he/she has to write source code for that conversion alone, has to design the names, the way values are converted to them. Some logarithms, value comparison ... quite a bit of a code and computation, just to add a letter next to value. On the other side - if scientific notation is used - it's one-liner :) Of course there is still some code behind, that converts binary to decimal (not that the other method does not require it ;p), but that's not what concerns the app programmist. To him/her it really is single short line of code. Simple conversion to text.

[Davide]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

Anyway, this fast grow with just billion, trilliion ... comes from USA. They had it, europe had -lliards in between. Then somewhere around '70s UK switched to fast progression of numbers and ... here we are, most (not all) english-speaking countries have fast progress of numbers. That's probably related to Commonwealth and UKs influence on colonies

As for link - yes, I know of such list, but it still does not mean, that anybody is using those "high" (after say quintilion or a step or two higher) names

We still use Billiards here in Italy, the fact that in this game there aren't billiards doesnt change a thing imho anyway, "Tri" will come after "Bis" and "Sept" will come after "sext" that's how numbers really matter lol. Buffs usually go to Kilos max for me so it's easy to do basic math, when I actually need to do it.

I don't even count after Billiards in RL we should ask somebody who's into science stuff. I mean it's just logic that if you started with prefixes like "Bis" and "Tris" you go on with "Quadri" etcetera to whatever, Billiards and Trilliards make everything much less clear... but yeah, I'll leave that part of the discussion to people actually using those numbers everyday-ish.

[Finn Bálor]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

For metric prefixes we do have kilo, mega, etc ... but those end really fast. What's funny, is that this game uses k (kilo) for thousand, M (mega) for million, yet it uses B instead of G. I know, B for Billion, but that's kinda problematic you know?

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

@Hel
Really, never heared of giga- (G), tera- (T) and so on? I clearly wrote that I am talking about commonly used `metric prefixes`.

You are confusing two types of metric prefixes. When kilo, mega etc. are used to indicate large numbers "in general", they mean 1000 times the previous prefix, e.g. 1k = 1000, 1M = 1000k, 1B = 1000M, and so on.

However, in the context of memory in a computer, measured in bits/bytes, it is common usage to have

1 k = 1024 = 2^10,
1 M = 1024 k = 2^20
1 G = 1024 M = 2^30

So G and B are not interchangeable, the difference between 2^30 and 10^9 is 73,741,824.

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

That's what kilo- is.

It depends. 1 kilometre = 1000 metre, but 1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes.

[Soul Reaver]

I was going to skip this topic, as we're moving further and further away from already solved problem :P But ...

Originally posted by Finn Bálor:

You are confusing two types of metric prefixes. When kilo, mega etc. are used to indicate large numbers "in general", they mean 1000 times the previous prefix, e.g. 1k = 1000, 1M = 1000k, 1B = 1000M, and so on.

However, in the context of memory in a computer, measured in bits/bytes, it is common usage to have

1 k = 1024 = 2^10,
1 M = 1024 k = 2^20
1 G = 1024 M = 2^30

So G and B are not interchangeable, the difference between 2^30 and 10^9 is 73,741,824.
It depends. 1 kilometre = 1000 metre, but 1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes.

It seems, that you are the one that is confusing something here.

Metric prefixes are ... just metric prefixes, those are what they are, nothing less, nothing more. Everyone uses them everyday and in most cases, know what he/she is doing (I know some people that no matter what can't understand why those are prefixes and not sufixes, because those after the value ... who cares about the unit).

Ok, back to metric prefixes, those are not only 1000 times previous value. There are "in-between" prefixes, like centi-, deci-, deca- and hecto-. But, if we skip those, then yes, we do have 1000-based relation between them.

As for 1B = 1000M - there is no such metric prefix as B, or at least I've never heared of one.

IT. Yes, it worked this way for quite long, but ... no more. When your unit is bit - you are using same metric prefixes as mentioned above, with the base of 1000. When your unit is byte, you're no longer using same prefixes.
1KiB (kibibyte) = 1024 B
1MiB (mibibyte) = 1024 KiB
1GiB (gibibyte) = 1024 MiB
and so on, search the web, you'll find others, but it's very easy to build those names if you know the base prefix it comes from.
Yes, M$ as always plays dumb and don't acknowledge such prefixes, hence there is no " i " between the standard 1000-based prefix and the Byte. Check on linux, probably in most distros you will see correct prefixes. Btw, I am not using linux, but I know that those units are used for quite long in those OSes. I know nothing about Macs, can't tell how it looks there.

Btw. when you were buying HDD with a label telling you have 1TB in most cases you did not have 1TiB space (i.e. not 1024^3 of Bytes), but exactly what was written - 1000^3 of Bytes.

Edit:

Originally posted by Wikipedia:

Operating systems
...

• The Linux kernel uses binary prefixes when booting up. However, many Unix-like system utilities, such as the ls command, use powers of 1024 indicated as K/M (customary binary prefixes) if called with the ‘‘-h’’ option or give the exact value in bytes otherwise. The GNU versions will also use powers of 10 indicated with k/M if called with the ‘‘--si’’ option.
  The Ubuntu Linux distribution uses the IEC prefixes for base-2 numbers as of the 10.10 release.
  
• Microsoft Windows reports file sizes and disk device capacities using the customary binary prefixes or, in a "Properties" dialog, using the exact value in bytes.
  
• Since Mac OS X Snow Leopard, (version 10.6), Apple's Mac OS X reports sizes using SI decimal prefixes (1 MB = 1000000 bytes).

[muljostpho]

Originally posted by Soul Reaver:

Originally posted by muljostpho:

G? I'm drawing a huge blank here on anything that that could possibly stand for in this context. I don't think I've ever heard of a "gillion". Not as a real number at least. Maybe as a joke word like "zillion".

Huge blank you say? :D And here I thought all the people here on steam should do know those. Really, never heared of giga- (G), tera- (T) and so on? I clearly wrote that I am talking about commonly used `metric prefixes`. That's what kilo- is.

Brain fart / stupid moment? I don't know what I was thinking....

In general conversation / everday use, when referring to numbers of any random thing, people say thousands, millions, billions, trillions, etc.

For metric, we're talking scientific measurements and prefixes adjusting the scale of a unit of measurement. And... As I recall, the focus in any class I took was usually on measurements in the smaller scales. "Milli-", "micro-", "nano-", etc. I'm not sure that we often went any larger than "kilo-" in the other direction... Unless the calculation was for energy. Energy can easily get into dealing with units like megajoules, gigajoules, etc. Definitely forgot about that and failed to make that connection in my last post.

I'm American and we don't use metric distance conversationally so I could be wrong, but I don't think anybody ever says anything like megameter or gigameter, do they? Seems like people just leave it at kilometers when dealing with more than 1000 km. Even though the use of the higher prefixes would let them keep the number under 1000.

I'm much more used to seeing "mega-", "giga-", "tera-" in the context of computer bits and bytes. Maybe my mind went there because you said "mega-" and then dismissed it as irrelevant to the topic that was going on and thought that you were getting something confused. (Just getting myself mixed up instead.)

[Soul Reaver]

:) Yes, we stay at kilometers no matter what. It's just that Earth does not have that many megameters (about 40 ... why not 47? I'm watching 2nd Hitman movie right now :D).

For "high" prefixes - of course, energy related stuff as in energy itself (GJ - joule), work (MW, GW - watts), but also pressure (MPa, GPa - pascal). Actually there is funny thing about pascals and our main topic - this might be new to you as you are probably using psi (or psig?, I'm not really sure). 1 atm (atmosphere, or standarized air pressure) equals about (let's skip decimals to simplify stuff) 0.1 MPa or 100 kPa, yet, we usually use 1000 hPa. Now why is this non 1000-based prefix used so commonly in this case? I don't know. :) It is as it is.

Other prefixes (over giga-) in my opinion are not quite popular but still I am sure there are people, who use them in their specialized work, but at the same time, most of those ultra high values are converted to some bigger units, like ... (opens wikipedia here) 9.4 Pm (peta- = 10^15 = 1e15) aproximately equals 1 light-year. This way, there is no actual use for such "big" (and "small" on the other side of zero one ... dumb me ;P) prefixes. Maybe that's the reason, amount of prefixes is actually very limited (compared to this game's capabilities ... 1.797e308 for double data type? single data type was exceeded so exponent of 308 should be the limit here).

[FantasiaUtopia]

e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 e7 e8.... K M B t q Q s S o n d U....
why is the Scientific Notation more confusing for some people? how?
I will never understand it.:D