Scientific Notation

[flemmingrohde]

if you go to settings
you can switch on Scientific Notation
this list the dmg as 1.11 e04 or 3.24 e55, where the numbers after the e is number of decimals after the dot (.)
so 1.11 e04 is 11100 and 1.11 e06 is 1110000
to me that seems much easier to figure out than all the m, M, B, Bm, Mb Qt q Q etc etc
scientific notation is the same all over the world, where a billion in America is 1000000000 and in Europe 1000000000000

[Tommy]

Theres really no need for this conversation. The number is green when it goes up and red when it goes down... It doesnt take a genius to see that when it goes up its better and that you try to keep it going up...

[76561198411442641]

Originally posted by Tommy:

Theres really no need for this conversation. The number is green when it goes up and red when it goes down... It doesnt take a genius to see that when it goes up its better and that you try to keep it going up...

The forums are about conversation. In CotLI, DPS is used to describe the difficulty of missions. Numbers have gotten large enough there that scientific notation is standard.

[sycocys]

My thought on it is that knowing the exact amount is pretty meaningless since you need to take huge leaps even in the rounded off numbers to advance anyhow.

If there were any point where knowing exactly what damage you need to complete x-stage was remotely relevant I might care - even judging the damage differences between main DD heros doesn't matter that much because they all end up having quite wide gaps and the rounded numbers are plenty easy to determine who is doing more or less damage.

[76561198411442641]

Originally posted by sycocys:

My thought on it is that knowing the exact amount is pretty meaningless since you need to take huge leaps even in the rounded off numbers to advance anyhow.

If there were any point where knowing exactly what damage you need to complete x-stage was remotely relevant I might care - even judging the damage differences between main DD heros doesn't matter that much because they all end up having quite wide gaps and the rounded numbers are plenty easy to determine who is doing more or less damage.

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Vega]

While I do know what scientific notation is (kind of, base number and powers of ten or some crap), I prefer a single letter used to define thousands, millions, billions, trillions, quad, quint, and so forth. Even the larger ones.

Looking at 150K is better for my eyes than 1.50e5, and even 925t for example .. than 9.25e11. It's a clicker game, it doesn't need to have that much depth.. numbers get higher as you progress, and the next number or letter up is an even higher one, but having this as an option is neat - for those who do prefer it.

[Psylisa]

Originally posted by Vega:

While I do know what scientific notation is (kind of, base number and powers of ten or some crap), I prefer a single letter used to define thousands, millions, billions, trillions, quad, quint, and so forth. Even the larger ones.

Looking at 150K is better for my eyes than 1.50e5, and even 925t for example .. than 9.25e11. It's a clicker game, it doesn't need to have that much depth.. numbers get higher as you progress, and the next number or letter up is an even higher one, but having this as an option is neat - for those who do prefer it.

Then you'll be in for a nasty surprise, because when you hit e60, the game forces you into scientific notation regardless.

As for the "next number up", the letter system doesn't follow a numeric order. So C is not greater than B, which is not greater than A. Scientific notation makes more sense, and there's a clear reason for that. Numbers make more sense than letters than stand for numbers, especially as those numbers grow large.

And sure, you can look at "green" vs "red" coloring. But it's also helpful to compare how much. Scientific notation allows you to do this quickly by using base 10 mechanics. Is 6 > 4? Sure. How much larger is e61 compared to e60? Quick answer is an order of magnitude (or 10x more). With a lettering system, you can't instinctively quantify QTB > QTD. Is it true? If so, by how much?

[Vega]

Currently at n in DPS and Q in gold, going into e60 will be a while I think but I learned that the hard way playing clicker heroes. Number got so big I couldn't play, my game looked like a math equation.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Psylisa:

With a lettering system, you can't instinctively quantify QTB > QTD. Is it true? If so, by how much?

Um, yes you can... but first you need real numbers since quattuorbillion is not a real number. Assuming you meant Quattuorvigintillion (QtV) over Quattuordecillion (QtD) then the first one is 10 instances of the cycle over the second, and since each cycle is 10³ (multiples of 1000), it's 30 orders of magnitude greater just from a glance.

Originally posted by Psylisa:

As for the "next number up", the letter system doesn't follow a numeric order. So C is not greater than B, which is not greater than A. Scientific notation makes more sense, and there's a clear reason for that. Numbers make more sense than letters than stand for numbers, especially as those numbers grow large.

What hog wash! Of course it follows a numeric order, I'll post the order it follows below. You might be thinking it doesn't follow ALPHABETICAL order.

The numbering sequence in math follows a very basic structure...

-illions
1 - Millions
2 - Billions
3 - Trillions
4 - Quadrillion
5 - Quintillion
6 - Sextillion
7 - Septillion
8 - Octillion
9 - Nonillion
10 - Decillion

And then it follows an identical repeating pattern for thousands of exponents. There's no reason to even stop counting at e60 since that's only Novemdecillion and the first pattern goes all the way to e303 (Centillion) at which point it repeats. We can count as far as the eye can see and not run out of number names, which given their base 10 naming scheme makes them very simple to identify.

11 - Undecillion
12 - Duodecillion
13 - Tredecillion
14 - Quattuordecillion
15 - Quindecillion
16 - Sexdecillion
17 - Septendecillion
18 - Octodecillion
19 - Novemdecillion
20 - Vigintillion
21 - Unvigintillion
22 - Duovigintillion
23 - Trevigintillion
24 - Quattuorvigintillion
25 - Quinvigintillion
26 - Sexviginitillion
27 - Septenvigintillion
28 - Octovigintillion
29 - Novemvigintillion

Notice the pattern?

30 - Trigintillion
40 - Quadragintillion
50 - Quinquagintillion
60 - Sexagintillion
70 - Septuagintillion
80 - Octogintillion
90 - Nonagintillion
100 - Centillion

I can pick a random name like Sexoctogintillion and immediately know that stands for the 86th -illions, meaning it's 86 of those three digit cycles over the thousands, or (10³)^(x+1) if you wanted the exponent which is only a scientific notation obsession you have since as I pointed out earlier the default notation uses no zeroes at all. It's irrelevent to know the exponent in the first place when you can instinctively value the number without it. If you want exponents, you use scientific and if you want to understand how large a number is without crunching math, you read its name.

86 - Sexoctogintillion
53 - Trequinquagintillion
42 - Duoquadragintillion
69 - Novemsexgintillion

But the crazy thing? These long hard to pronounce names aren't even how the text is written! They simplify it for you with just letter abbreviations! Makes it even easier to interpret while preserving the base 10³ plateaus that make reading a rapidly fluctuating number less of a pain. We don't need to know how many millions of inches it is between here and the moon when a better unit of measure exists. You don't use centimeters to measure something that should be measured in kilometers because the size of the prefix will determine the precision and we don't need to be that precise when we're concerned with relatively long distances.

Your argument is like claiming no one knows whether eight is greater than or less than nine simply because it's not written as a number. "Omg, we have to convert from English to know!!!" <_<

[Psylisa]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Originally posted by Psylisa:

With a lettering system, you can't instinctively quantify QTB > QTD. Is it true? If so, by how much?

Um, yes you can... but first you need real numbers since quattuorbillion is not a real number. Assuming you meant Quattuorvigintillion (QtV) over Quattuordecillion (QtD) then the first one is 10 instances of the cycle over the second, and since each cycle is 10³ (multiples of 1000), it's 30 orders of magnitude greater just from a glance.

Originally posted by Psylisa:

As for the "next number up", the letter system doesn't follow a numeric order. So C is not greater than B, which is not greater than A. Scientific notation makes more sense, and there's a clear reason for that. Numbers make more sense than letters than stand for numbers, especially as those numbers grow large.

What hog wash! Of course it follows a numeric order, I'll post the order it follows below. You might be thinking it doesn't follow ALPHABETICAL order.

The numbering sequence in math follows a very basic structure...

-illions
1 - Millions
2 - Billions
3 - Trillions
4 - Quadrillion
5 - Quintillion
6 - Sextillion
7 - Septillion
8 - Octillion
9 - Nonillion
10 - Decillion

And then it follows an identical repeating pattern for thousands of exponents. There's no reason to even stop counting at e60 since that's only Novemdecillion and the first pattern goes all the way to e303 (Centillion) at which point it repeats. We can count as far as the eye can see and not run out of number names, which given their base 10 naming scheme makes them very simple to identify.

11 - Undecillion
12 - Duodecillion
13 - Tredecillion
14 - Quattuordecillion
15 - Quindecillion
16 - Sexdecillion
17 - Septendecillion
18 - Octodecillion
19 - Novemdecillion
20 - Vigintillion
21 - Unvigintillion
22 - Duovigintillion
23 - Trevigintillion
24 - Quattuorvigintillion
25 - Quinvigintillion
26 - Sexviginitillion
27 - Septenvigintillion
28 - Octovigintillion
29 - Novemvigintillion

Notice the pattern?

30 - Trigintillion
40 - Quadragintillion
50 - Quinquagintillion
60 - Sexagintillion
70 - Septuagintillion
80 - Octogintillion
90 - Nonagintillion
100 - Centillion

I can pick a random name like Sexoctogintillion and immediately know that stands for the 86th -illions, meaning it's 86 of those three digit cycles over the thousands, or (10³)^(x+1) if you wanted the exponent which is only a scientific notation obsession you have since as I pointed out earlier the default notation uses no zeroes at all. It's irrelevent to know the exponent in the first place when you can instinctively value the number without it. If you want exponents, you use scientific and if you want to understand how large a number is without crunching math, you read its name.

86 - Sexoctogintillion
53 - Trequinquagintillion
42 - Duoquadragintillion
69 - Novemsexgintillion

But the crazy thing? These long hard to pronounce names aren't even how the text is written! They simplify it for you with just letter abbreviations! Makes it even easier to interpret while preserving the base 10³ plateaus that make reading a rapidly fluctuating number less of a pain. We don't need to know how many millions of inches it is between here and the moon when a better unit of measure exists. You don't use centimeters to measure something that should be measured in kilometers because the size of the prefix will determine the precision and we don't need to be that precise when we're concerned with relatively long distances.

Your argument is like claiming no one knows whether eight is greater than or less than nine simply because it's not written as a number. "Omg, we have to convert from English to know!!!" <_<

Wall of text crits you for 1e60 damage.
Either way, you're stuck with scientific notation when you exceed e60. Have fun!

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Psylisa:

Wall of text crits you for 1e60 damage.
Either way, you're stuck with scientific notation when you exceed e60. Have fun!

Until patched, considering every other idle game has abbreviations that go beyond Novemdecillion. Rally breathren! Call for Viginitillion!

Either way, this is the default for a reason and you can switch if you're dissatisfied.

[Psylisa]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Until patched, considering every other idle game has abbreviations that go beyond Novemdecillion. Rally breathren! Call for Viginitillion!

Either way, this is the default for a reason and you can switch if you're dissatisfied.

The default is also to show all text / cinematics in freeplay. Default does not equate to better.

And in fact, most things in life that are "default" are for those that don't know any better. Off the rack suit? It's default. But tailored is better. Default options on your car? It's workable. But custom options make it more enjoyable / luxurious.

[Rottenc]

I think Kyutaru just proud by knowing these vingillions 8-))

"Trequinquagintillion" - i need 15 second just to read this 8-) and can't understand 3..5..4..???.. tilions

But this names is useless, imho. I never see this in literatures.
In school we learn gigawatt, pikofarad etc. But in calculation use only e9 or e-12
BTW, English - forein language. MB in over countrys vingillions is usable

[klionh87]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

The numbering sequence in math follows a very basic structure...

-illions
1 - Millions
2 - Billions
3 - Trillions
4 - Quadrillion
5 - Quintillion
6 - Sextillion
7 - Septillion
8 - Octillion
9 - Nonillion
10 - Decillion

[...]

11 - Undecillion
12 - Duodecillion
13 - Tredecillion
14 - Quattuordecillion
15 - Quindecillion
16 - Sexdecillion
17 - Septendecillion
18 - Octodecillion
19 - Novemdecillion
20 - Vigintillion
21 - Unvigintillion
22 - Duovigintillion
23 - Trevigintillion
24 - Quattuorvigintillion
25 - Quinvigintillion
26 - Sexviginitillion
27 - Septenvigintillion
28 - Octovigintillion
29 - Novemvigintillion

Notice the pattern?

30 - Trigintillion
40 - Quadragintillion
50 - Quinquagintillion
60 - Sexagintillion
70 - Septuagintillion
80 - Octogintillion
90 - Nonagintillion
100 - Centillion

[...]

86 - Sexoctogintillion
53 - Trequinquagintillion
42 - Duoquadragintillion
69 - Novemsexgintillion

But the crazy thing? These long hard to pronounce names aren't even how the text is written! They simplify it for you with just letter abbreviations! Makes it even easier to interpret while preserving the base 10³ plateaus that make reading a rapidly fluctuating number less of a pain. We don't need to know how many millions of inches it is between here and the moon when a better unit of measure exists. You don't use centimeters to measure something that should be measured in kilometers because the size of the prefix will determine the precision and we don't need to be that precise when we're concerned with relatively long distances.

Your argument is like claiming no one knows whether eight is greater than or less than nine simply because it's not written as a number. "Omg, we have to convert from English to know!!!" <_<

And all of this...would easier than just using the powers of ten as an exponent, for you? Whoa.

Also. "Omg, we have to convert from <insert language here> to know!!!" is a valid complaint. No one wants to ever read "Damage: one hundred and seventy four Quadragintillions" instead of "Damage: 1.74e123". No one. (maybe a particularly sadistic English teacher?)
Numbers exist for a reason :D

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Rottenc:

I think Kyutaru just proud by knowing these vingillions 8-))

"Trequinquagintillion" - i need 15 second just to read this 8-) and can't understand 3..5..4..???.. tilions

But this names is useless, imho. I never see this in literatures.
In school we learn gigawatt, pikofarad etc. But in calculation use only e9 or e-12
BTW, English - forein language. MB in over countrys vingillions is usable

Good news! You'll never even see this name anywhere in game ever.

The game uses 1-2 letter abbreviations. Just as it doesn't tack on 15 zeroes to numbers so you never need to know the exponent either. What you do need to know is that U comes before D.

Originally posted by klionh87:

And all of this...would easier than just using the powers of ten as an exponent, for you? Whoa.

Also. "Omg, we have to convert from <insert language here> to know!!!" is a valid complaint. No one wants to ever read "Damage: one hundred and seventy four Quadragintillions" instead of "Damage: 1.74e123". No one. (maybe a particularly sadistic English teacher?)
Numbers exist for a reason :D

See above, the game never claims "Damage: one hundred and seventy four Quadragintillions" which kind of makes your claim irrelevent. It uses a number with an attached letter abbreviation, which is actually SHORTER than e123. It also distinguishes the ending in a non-uniform manner by contrasting numbers with letters instead of the homogenized e24 e25 e23 e25 e22 spam on your screen. Yes, it's much easier! Again, would someone prefer to claim we don't know that eight comes before nine without first translating it from English to digits?

Thank god the game doesn't say Quadragintillions ever so you don't have to worry about that complaint! :D It's merely described above to show how the naming sequence follows a familiar pattern that can be recognized and immediately discerned by people who bother to learn their large numbers. And even by those who don't since it's a game and can teach you that q comes before Q simply through observation. If you forget what you've learned then I can't help there and neither can the game. Hope you remember what characters to use in your formations. :(

[klionh87]

I'm glad you agree that having numbers expressed without numbers is bad, at least.

About the rest, I guess we have to agree to disagree. It's fine, to each his/her own.