Scientific Notation

[flemmingrohde]

if you go to settings
you can switch on Scientific Notation
this list the dmg as 1.11 e04 or 3.24 e55, where the numbers after the e is number of decimals after the dot (.)
so 1.11 e04 is 11100 and 1.11 e06 is 1110000
to me that seems much easier to figure out than all the m, M, B, Bm, Mb Qt q Q etc etc
scientific notation is the same all over the world, where a billion in America is 1000000000 and in Europe 1000000000000

[76561198411442641]

Scientific notation is the tool of the devil. My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

[klionh87]

Yeah, I switched to scientific notation as soon as I was consistently seeing numbers greater than 1B.

It would get too silly too fast otherwise XD

[Kyutaru]

Scientific notation is awful because it's single digit. Engineering notation maintains the three digit numbers. I leave it on default because it's easy to determine the order considering million is a thousand thousands, bi means 2, tri means 3, quad means 4, quint means 5 etc. It's easy to look at n and know that means 9 and it's easier to keep track of less than 20 notations rather than 55 of them.

[Rottenc]

O! its so easy to translate from Latin (or Greek?)
and why q=quad, Q=quint? maybe Q=quad, q=quint?
how about U, D? Uleven, Dwelwe 8-)

imho compare 18, 19, 25 less difficult

[Kyutaru]

Yes, it's easy to translate from English since these are English numbers.

Small letter is the one that comes first, large letter comes second.

Quad = q, Quint = Q, just as trillion = t, Tredecillion = T, decillion = d, Dodecillion = D, and U = Undecillion. It's only hard for people who don't understand large numbers in the first place or who didn't do well in math class. For them you have Scientific Notation toggle to translate from the much easier default notation into something comprehensible to the numerically challenged.

[klionh87]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Scientific notation is awful because it's single digit. Engineering notation maintains the three digit numbers. I leave it on default because it's easy to determine the order considering million is a thousand thousands, bi means 2, tri means 3, quad means 4, quint means 5 etc. It's easy to look at n and know that means 9 and it's easier to keep track of less than 20 notations rather than 55 of them.

It's still 3 digits. Only the structure changes.
Also, what's that about 55 notations? You have 1(one) notation with scientific, X.YZeE. That's it. Whatever number you want, you express it in the exact same way each time, be it 1.10e03 or 8.52e98.

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Yes, it's easy to translate from English since these are English numbers.

Small letter is the one that comes first, large letter comes second.

Quad = q, Quint = Q, just as trillion = t, Tredecillion = T, decillion = d, Dodecillion = D, and U = Undecillion. It's only hard for people who don't understand large numbers in the first place or who didn't do well in math class. For them you have Scientific Notation toggle to translate from the much easier default notation into something comprehensible to the numerically challenged.

Um. A matter of opinions, I guess.

Take 1.41e08 and 2.45e10. To me it's just one glance to see that the second is roughly 200 times bigger than the first. (e10 is 100x e08, and the base number is roughly double)

Compare with 141M and 24.5B. Wut? Different notations, so you need to convert to something common, plus you need to figure out what the letters mean. It's just more steps that can be avoided.

[Rottenc]

btw, i am engineer, so i known Mega, Giga, Tera, Peta
gogle translate also don't know decilliones with prefixes 8-)

PS. Same system where is in CotLI from Codename. But at e60+ letters is ending and game switch to science notation.

[Psylisa]

Originally posted by klionh87:

Take 1.41e08 and 2.45e10. To me it's just one glance to see that the second is roughly 200 times bigger than the first. (e10 is 100x e08, and the base number is roughly double)

Compare with 141M and 24.5B. Wut? Different notations, so you need to convert to something common, plus you need to figure out what the letters mean. It's just more steps that can be avoided.

This.

[thefollowingcharacters]

At first, I was suspicious of this "scientific notation". You know, them scientists support stuff like "global warming" and "the moon landing" (right...) so I thought this notation was going to be so much more complext then my American millions, billions, and whatever comes next.

Let me tell you, at first, I thought the notation was the devil's numbers themselves! And maybe they are. After a few, I started really likin' them numbers. In fact, I started liking science! I told a friend the other day that "maybe global warming is real," He just looked at me like he seen a ghost! "But parn," he said, "You know its all a global scam to sell solar panels while denying the God given coal beneath our feet!"

Prior to changing to scientific notation, I would have agreed. But now, I question the world a little more, and Ima thinkin I've expanded this ol' noggin! Still don't believe in the moon landing though. We all know you can't land on green cheese!

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by klionh87:

It's still 3 digits. Only the structure changes.
Also, what's that about 55 notations? You have 1(one) notation with scientific, X.YZeE. That's it. Whatever number you want, you express it in the exact same way each time, be it 1.10e03 or 8.52e98.

It's not 3 digits in the same way, the structure is a constantly changing base number. Engineering notation is okay because it maintains that the power must be divisible by three thereby preserving the original format, so 100e3, 100e6, 100e9.

Originally posted by klionh87:

Um. A matter of opinions, I guess.

Take 1.41e08 and 2.45e10. To me it's just one glance to see that the second is roughly 200 times bigger than the first. (e10 is 100x e08, and the base number is roughly double)

Compare with 141M and 24.5B. Wut? Different notations, so you need to convert to something common, plus you need to figure out what the letters mean. It's just more steps that can be avoided.

That's the thing, I have no need to convert to something common. Seeing an m, b, t is innately interpreted as their respective tiers. Where scientific has 55+ tiers with a rapidly changing exponent, default has plateaus with multiples of a 1000. Unless they add engineering notation, the plateaus are favorable and their format simple enough to understand. You wouldn't sit there trying to convert to common over understanding whether C comes before F in the alphabet and these abbreviations are representations of the mathematical alphabet.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Rottenc:

btw, i am engineer, so i known Mega, Giga, Tera, Peta
gogle translate also don't know decilliones with prefixes 8-)

PS. Same system where is in CotLI from Codename. But at e60+ letters is ending and game switch to science notation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers

Decillion
Undecillion
Duodecillion
Tredecillion
Quattuordecillion
Quindecillion
Sexdecillion
Septendecillion
Octodecillion
Novemdecillion
Vigintillion

[flemmingrohde]

the main issue with the non scientific notation
is that its not the same all over the world
in some countries a billion has 9 0's
in other countries a billion has 12 0's
a trillion 12 or 18 etc etc

[Kyutaru]

Since the game doesn't have zeroes in the first place, it's a non-issue. Do you understand that billion comes before trillion? Then you understand the game's notation system. There aren't 9 or 12 zeroes at all unless you turn on scientific notation to look at the exponents.

Meanwhile scientific notation features a rapidly changing exponent with a value that fluctuates in rapidity of its climb. This is because while farming you will regularly climb between the 1s, 10s, and 100s column in default notation, which in scientific looks like exponents bouncing between 53 and 55 with 1 through 9 climbing quickly, then slowly, then super slowly, until another climb or descent occurs. The default (and engineering notation) operating on multiples of three (10³) means each plateau is dominated by a rarely changing proportionality to the increasing and decreasing values.

In other words, if you're getting 40t gold per second, you can conclude it'll take 17 seconds to reach 680t gold, or 30 seconds to reach 1200t gold, which gets retranslated into 1.2q gold after hitting a new plateau. Yet if you're gaining 4.0e13 gold per second, how long will it take to reach 1.2e15 gold? These are identical equations and one is far easier to calculate than the other because the goal posts aren't rapidly changing. Larger base = Stability.

Or in layman's terms, would you count the distance between New York and Las Vegas in terms of miles or would you measure it in inches? The range of 1 to 10 is too small for gold farming at an accelerated rate while 1 to 1000 at various tiers seems to better fit the rate at which you acquire shinies.

[76561198411442641]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Or in layman's terms, would you count the distance between New York and Las Vegas in terms of miles or would you measure it in inches?

Most countries use neither.

[klionh87]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

[...]

In other words, if you're getting 40t gold per second, you can conclude it'll take 17 seconds to reach 680t gold, or 30 seconds to reach 1200t gold, which gets retranslated into 1.2q gold after hitting a new plateau. Yet if you're gaining 4.0e13 gold per second, how long will it take to reach 1.2e15 gold? These are identical equations and one is far easier to calculate than the other because the goal posts aren't rapidly changing. Larger base = Stability.

It...really doesn't make any difference?

40t/s...30 seconds to reach 1200t-->"invalid" notation, so we convert to 1.2q.
2 divisions.

VS

4.0e13/s...30 seconds to reach 120e13-->"invalid" notation, so we convert to 1.20e15.
2 divisions.


Or if the question is asked using valid notation:

You gain 40t/s gold. How much time does it take to reach 1.2q gold?
First figure out that 1.2q is 1200t. Then divide 1200/40=30 and you're done.

VS

You gain 4.00e13/s gold. How much time does it take to reach 1.20e15 gold?
First figure out that 1.20e15 is 120e13. Then divide 120/4=30 and you're done.


Same exact process every time.

The only difference, maybe, is that figuring out that 1.2q is 1200t requires the knowledge that 1q=1000t. It may be innate for you, but not for others; especially as you start considering non-engineers, who are still the majority in the world and who rarely, if ever, deal with numbers that go beyond the million.

The fact that 1e15=100e13, on the other hand, should be obvious to all as long as they understand what that "eXX" means, no matter how high or how low you go with the actual numbers.




Walls of text aside, though, I guess it was a very good idea for Codename to have the option to switch between these two different notations. Everyone can be happy :)