Is Stoneshard not a roguelike?

[Miscellani]

In other community I keep reading this game is utterly unplayable and not worth buying it. Some even mentioned that this is 2d Diablo 2 with a contents to the den of evil.
I personally enjoyed playing Stoneshard, and I wanted to refute, but when I read "this is not a roguelike", I couldn't think of strong argument against it.
Can you guys help me clear my mind?

[Rodrigo]

It's not 2D Diablo. Diablo is an ARPG. Stoneshard is a roguelike, and as such, it's turn-based. Diablo is an action game and I would argue that Stoneshard has more strategy than it has action.

This has been discussed to death. People don't seem to agree on what is a roguelike.

According to Wikipedia, Stoneshard is a roguelike in every sense and I stand by it.

Roguelike (or rogue-like; sometimes capitalized) is a subgenre of role-playing video game characterized by a dungeon crawl through procedurally generated levels, turn-based gameplay, tile-based graphics, and permanent death of the player character.

Source: Wikipedia

Some important differences between Diablo and Stoneshard:

Diablo
Hack and slash RPG / standard Action RPG
Standard saving
Fixed linear quests (Diablo 1 and 2 at least, haven't played Diablo 3)

Stoneshard
Turn-based RPG
(Optional) Permadeath and savespots
Randomly generated contracts

These things said, yes, Stoneshard is inspired by Diablo, the devs said so themselves in the Kickstarter page. But saying Stoneshard is a 2D Diablo is an understatement, they are both unique games with some similarities and that's it.

[Lane]

It is not a roguelike and that is a good thing.

[Mimung]

My feeling is that it is a roguelike but not as tight as ToME or ADOM. Feels more loose, more rpgy.
There have been people here saying they cant go back to ToME or ADOM after playing the bliss of stoneshard and i agree with them.
I personally dont care what it is genre wise, its somewhere in the rpg rogue field and the best singleplayer/single protagonist turnbased game i have ever played. And i played a metric ♥♥♥ ton of games over many years now.

Game is totaly different than the Diablo series. Specially nothing like the arcade imbecileness of D3. If u play it like it (as some people do) u will get rekt.

[Rodrigo]

Yes, and some people come to Stoneshard wanting to play it the same way they play Diablo or any other ARPG. I love ARPGs and I love Stoneshards and I respect the fact that they are played differently.

If you pay attention, the people saying Stoneshard is not a roguelike, they never mention the reason they think that way. They just say "it's not", they don't say why. I'm saying why it's a roguelike according to a standard definition of roguelikes. People are welcome to disagree if they think differently, but simply saying "it's not" is pointless.

I guess that some people are looking for a Rogueclone, not a roguelike. Stoneshard is as much roguelike as other games are souls-like, without being souls-clone.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Yes, and some people come to Stoneshard wanting to play it the same way they play Diablo or any other ARPG. I love ARPGs and I love Stoneshards and I respect the fact that they are played differently.

If you pay attention, the people saying Stoneshard is not a roguelike, they never say any argument to why they think that way. They just say "it's not", they don't say why. I'm saying why it's a roguelike according to standard definition.

My love for Diablo ended with what came after 2 and the only two other decent "classic" ARPGs were titan quest and PoE imho.

[Rodrigo]

Did you ever try Grim Dawn? Same developers of Titan Quest.

There's also a new APRG called Wolcen, worth checking out. (Haven't played it myself though)

PoE is great.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Did you ever try Grim Dawn? Same developers of Titan Quest.

There's also a new APRG called Wolcen, worth checking out. (Haven't played it myself though)

PoE is great.

Grim Dawn isnt my kinda universe im not a fan of 1605ish gunpowder based fantasy. Same reason my Mount&Blade never made it to "with fire & sword" and i couldnt play PoE2, pirates guns all that stuff not my cup of tea. Im lurking at wolcen for a while now tho they got guns too

[Rodrigo]

I see. You don't like the theme.

I played 20h in Grim Dawn with a melee character, I didn't see a lot of gunpowder, never reached my attention. Not a single enemy using that as far as I recall. However, I could have just overlooked it by accident.

I really dig dark ARPGs like the first Diablo, and I would totally play more games like that if they were available.

[FDru]

Well the terms roguelite and roguelike-like exist for a reason. Some games have roguelike elements but don't simply restart you from the beginning when you die. IMO the only 2 requirements for a roguelike are permadeath and some kind of random level generation.. without those you're breaking too far away from the spirit of what a roguelike is. But you don't NEED to be an RPG, or be turn based, or have one continuous dungeon.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

I see. You don't like the theme.

I played 20h in Grim Dawn with a melee character, I didn't see a lot of gunpowder, never reached my attention. Not a single enemy using that as far as I recall. However, I could have just overlooked it by accident.

I really dig dark ARPGs like the first Diablo, and I would totally play more games like that if they were available.

tbh stoneshard is the best shot we have at sth like that tone and theme wise in 24years of waiting. thats what gives a lot of us urgency, we just waited too long for sth like this.

sure there are honorable mentions but nothing like it.

speaking of recomendations:
If u basically like the gameplay of skyrim but didnt like the arcadeness and dumbed down ness of the base game and are more into the old gothic style of first person rpgs, i can wholeheartedly recommend the Requiem Mod with AZ Tweaks mod and permadeath, basic needs, hunterborn etc.

Some of the best times i ever had in hardcore RPG gaming in my life

[Rodrigo]

That's a fine recommendation, never heard of it before. I will look into it, thanks!

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

That's a fine recommendation, never heard of it before. I will look into it, thanks!

make sure to also pick start a new life mod and start as something totaly gimped like a refugee crossing the border for the full experience

[Mimung]

Something to add to that because it is actually quite a hustle to get it:

That Mod combination basically taught me that gaming is not about the goal but about the journey and that did even inform my RL.
Sure most people know that phrase but really understanding it, letting it seep into you, becoming part of you; is something completly different.
Only very few people on the planet play Requiem with the AZ tweaks submod in permadeath mode, for us its the holy grail of realtime firstperson rpg gaming.
I rly do hope u buy the ticket and take the ride man.
There is nothing like it.

[Thor]

I am sort of baffled by the amount of people coming to these forums equating almost everything that is not like Rogue to be a roguelike.
I feel like just telling them to go and watch gameplay of Rogue, or tell them to play Rogue would be enough.

It's almost like having people come and say that a game is a metroidvania, when they don't even know what Metroid or Castlevania is.

[Mimung]

Originally posted by Raizo:

I am sort of baffled by the amount of people coming to these forums equating almost everything that is not like Rogue to be a roguelike.
I feel like just telling them to go and watch gameplay of Rogue, or tell them to play Rogue would be enough.

It's almost like having people come and say that a game is a metroidvania, when they don't even know what Metroid or Castlevania is.

Sadly my eyes cant take Rogue, i am the generation after that so i got to stick to ToME and ADOM as comparisons and then again i dont rly care what stoneshard genre wise is and i dont understand why its such a big deal for people. Maybe you can explain that to me.