Timing Adjustment

[maloriezastrow]

I love this game so far. Certainly worth the money.

My one suggestion would be the ability to shift the block timing forward or backward a bit. I am a drummer and with the default setup and on my PC (possible lag in the timeing and whatnot), I find that the strike zone is just in front of the beat. I find myself adjusting the Z position and stepping to the back of the platform in order to get that strike right in the pocket so it has that really visceral feel that you get of striking exactly in time with the sound. The Z position seems a bit of a hokey fix, but it works.

Loving this game. Can't wait to see where you take it.
Thanks for the effort.

[LukeBu]

I think it does. The comfort zone for cutting blocks, especially in really fast songs, is quite small. I think the window in both space and time is much smaller than you think it is.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by LukeBu:

I think it does. The comfort zone for cutting blocks, especially in really fast songs, is quite small. I think the window in both space and time is much smaller than you think it is.

The window in space (if you're talking about the hitbox) is actually bigger than the cube itself, which helps even more with A/V delay issues. As for time, to have actual data we'd need to test this, as I don't think there was any tests for that, but to me, someone who has been playing rhythm games for 20+ years on various systems and games, the margin of error seems exceptionally large compared to any other games I've played, for both the physical cut and the timing of the cut. It's so big people have been manipulating it to get easier 100+ scores (i.e. hitting with the tip of the saber for example).

Anyways, my initial response was to the comparision of Beat Saber and Audica, and I stand by my point, if you compare both, A/V delay really doesn't matter on Beat Saber. You can just take a look at the stat screen after beating an Audica song to have a proof of that.

[LukeBu]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1689206656

[Alternity]

44ms is way more delay than pretty much every VR HMD out there, for both audio and video, so it's still a pretty big window. I would understand to want the delay changed if that game was played on multiple TVs, but VR HMD have a pretty good video/audio delay (we're talking gaming monitor kind of delay, very fast), this is why I'm saying this is mostly affecting people with fancy hardware. Just by comparision, most rhythm game usually have a 30-35ms window, which just proove that I was right, it is significantly bigger than most games.

The only thing though is that I think the window to hit the cube changes depending on the NJS, I might be wrong on this, but it seems like it. I think more testing is needed for actual data. The problem with testing this with Beat Saber is that you can't really bot it, unless I've been living in a cave and someone actually botted Beat Saber... Without botting, it's difficult to really know the time we have to hit the cube, at multiple NJS settings.

Also, I just want to point out that your doodle doesn't take in consideration the actual hitboxes. Here is a cube with the correct color hitbox (the big one) and the wrong color hitbox (the smaller one) https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/32055887/bc0c6daf850a5ab458e0b8df99f9de3c60433e89.png

This hitbox picture is from the devs found here: https://steamcommunity.com/games/620980/announcements/detail/1708450266985625131

[LukeBu]

The longer hitbox does not matter, as you are going to aim for the actual block. My point is that the block comes in at a very precise and narrow window, which makes it being wrong worse since you will miss the block, or feel that you need to reach hard or play with t-rex arms to swing at the right time. People aren't asking for data, just the ability to manually and incrementally change timing until it feels right to them on their system. No one cares about other rhythm games and standards they set because they usually make the button as long as the window to hit them, and just require a button push, along with options to match display speeds. That info is not relevant and you can stop quoting other games. Just the difference in size of person (length and reach of arms) could require different timings, so an option to manually offset timing is the best option in the case of this game.

[Alternity]

My initial argument was about a comparision between Audica and Beat Saber, so I don't see why I wouldn't quote how Audica works.

As for the hitbox, what you're saying is simply not true. IDK about you but when I play a rhythm game, I aim for the time, not for the visual itself. Even if the tip of your saber touches the hitbox at the very front end the block is going to be cut and you don't notice the difference if your saber was there or directly on the visual block, so yes, the lenght of the hitbox really matters here, if it didn't the devs wouldn't have made the hitbox significantly longer, I'm pretty why it's done this way it's compensate for the low lag of every supported headset, which is point: there is no settings because this game is meant to be played on specific hardware, and that includes audio from the headset, not from a wireless headphones setup or USB or whatever else someone might use for the sound. I understand that for some people it may be more convenient to use something fancy (aka, not stock HMD audio), but I doubt the devs will do anything for that any time soon as this post is the only place where I've really seen this discussed for this game and the devs do no roam around this forums, and two, I'm pretty sure the game is intended to play on stock hardware as this is still in early access, and three, score does not depend on time precision.

[Herbivorous Cyborg]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by Khaezaid:

You are merely asserting that it doesn't matter. It definitely does. Why are you speaking with authority on matters you clearly don't have experience with?

Don't have experience with what, rhythm games? What?

Anyways, hitting blocks in time in Beat Saber is not what makes your score, so idk what you're talking about. It's clear that if your delay is bigger than 100ms (this is a guess, I don't actually know what's the threshold) you will most likely miss if you use audio to guide yourself, but timing in Beat Saber really does not matter. Your score is based on the angle before and after the slice, and the accuracy of the slice, not the timing accuracy, but the physical accuracy. In Audica, your score is based both on physical AND timing accuracy, and also your form.

Yes, your score is based on the angle. The easiest angle to hit the block is based in part on it's distance away from your body., which is impacted by latency. It seems clear that you are not one of the many people suffering from audio latency issues, so why are you sitting here telling us what is or is not a problem for us? Maybe you should ♥♥♥♥ off instead of trolling people.

[LukeBu]

@Alternity
I do not care why you want to compare these 2 games, nor is Audica at all relevant.
You, saying that what I said about hitboxes is not true, is false. It is subjective what is important to you, so it can be important to everyone but you. Your point here is also is irrelevant.
This option would fix Issues I had in the past, but currently do not have, so I am not hugely invested in it, but I also see no reason why you should be opposed to it, as it would not hurt you at all. I also do not care about score. I am telling you that it is a comfort and QOL issue for some people, and you will not be able to rationalize away peoples preferences. Arguing that devs are unlikely to care is silly. There are other discussions about the issues this would fix, and they seem involved enough to likely have noticed, which is proven by some of the changes they have made already.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by LukeBu:

@Alternity
I do not care why you want to compare these 2 games, nor is Audica at all relevant.
You, saying that what I said about hitboxes is not true, is false. It is subjective what is important to you, so it can be important to everyone but you. Your point here is also is irrelevant.
This option would fix Issues I had in the past, but currently do not have, so I am not hugely invested in it, but I also see no reason why you should be opposed to it, as it would not hurt you at all. I also do not care about score. I am telling you that it is a comfort and QOL issue for some people, and you will not be able to rationalize away peoples preferences. Arguing that devs are unlikely to care is silly. There are other discussions about the issues this would fix, and they seem involved enough to likely have noticed, which is proven by some of the changes they have made already.

I never said I was opposed to it, I just tried to explain why it is this way, it's not about preference. Any rhythm game should have this setting, but in this game it's not particularly necessary unless you're not using stock hardware. And I'm not saying the devs won't care, I'm saying the devs simply does not frequent these forums at all. If you want to reach them Twitter or even the modding discord is a better place, since they are actually roaming around these platforms. Please don't twist my words.

Originally posted by Khaezaid:

Originally posted by Alternity:

Don't have experience with what, rhythm games? What?

Anyways, hitting blocks in time in Beat Saber is not what makes your score, so idk what you're talking about. It's clear that if your delay is bigger than 100ms (this is a guess, I don't actually know what's the threshold) you will most likely miss if you use audio to guide yourself, but timing in Beat Saber really does not matter. Your score is based on the angle before and after the slice, and the accuracy of the slice, not the timing accuracy, but the physical accuracy. In Audica, your score is based both on physical AND timing accuracy, and also your form.

Yes, your score is based on the angle. The easiest angle to hit the block is based in part on it's distance away from your body., which is impacted by latency. It seems clear that you are not one of the many people suffering from audio latency issues, so why are you sitting here telling us what is or is not a problem for us? Maybe you should ♥♥♥♥ off instead of trolling people.

I'm just saying Audica has a legit reason to use these settings. Beat Saber was obviously meant for stock VR hardware, and these have low latency enough that using a big enough hitbox on the cubes is enough to go around the small differences between headsets, and since it doesn't use time for scoring, you don't need to precise to the milisecond. If it was necessary to play this game, this setting would have been there from the start.

[Herbivorous Cyborg]

Originally posted by Alternity:

If it was necessary to play this game, this setting would have been there from the start.

Again, you are clearly not speaking from a place of experience. I am. I can attest to the fact that this game is thoroughly unenjoyable with a moderate amount of latency. Please ♥♥♥♥ off and stop trolling. You have nothing to gain by arguing with us.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Khaezaid:

Originally posted by Alternity:

If it was necessary to play this game, this setting would have been there from the start.

Again, you are clearly not speaking from a place of experience. I am. I can attest to the fact that this game is thoroughly unenjoyable with a moderate amount of latency. Please ♥♥♥♥ off and stop trolling. You have nothing to gain by arguing with us.

I didn't say the opposite, if you have a big enough lag, it can't enjoyable (I can't remember where I said the opposite, can you quote me?), but this also means you're probably not using stock audio equipment, or maybe something else to add latency to your VR setup, and if you are using stock equipment I would suggest to directly report the bug. Calling me a troll and twisting my words doesn't add anything to the conversation.

[Herbivorous Cyborg]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by Khaezaid:

Again, you are clearly not speaking from a place of experience. I am. I can attest to the fact that this game is thoroughly unenjoyable with a moderate amount of latency. Please ♥♥♥♥ off and stop trolling. You have nothing to gain by arguing with us.

I didn't say the opposite, if you have a big enough lag, it can't enjoyable (I can't remember where I said the opposite, can you quote me?), but this also means you're probably not using stock audio equipment, or maybe something else to add latency to your VR setup, and if you are using stock equipment I would suggest to directly report the bug. Calling me a troll and twisting my words doesn't add anything to the conversation.

So by your rationale, anyone who wants to enjoy the game needs to use stock equipment, which is often inferior to the equipment they prefer? ♥♥♥♥ off with that. And yes, you are definitely a troll, as you have literally no reason to be commenting in this thread other than to antagonize people who are experience playability issues with this game. I shouldn't have to use my crappy headphones just to enjoy this game you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Khaezaid:

Originally posted by Alternity:

I didn't say the opposite, if you have a big enough lag, it can't enjoyable (I can't remember where I said the opposite, can you quote me?), but this also means you're probably not using stock audio equipment, or maybe something else to add latency to your VR setup, and if you are using stock equipment I would suggest to directly report the bug. Calling me a troll and twisting my words doesn't add anything to the conversation.

So by your rationale, anyone who wants to enjoy the game needs to use stock equipment, which is often inferior to the equipment they prefer? ♥♥♥♥ off with that. And yes, you are definitely a troll, as you have literally no reason to be commenting in this thread other than to antagonize people who are experience playability issues with this game. I shouldn't have to use my crappy headphones just to enjoy this game you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

I'm getting insulted because the devs do something and I'm simply saying facts? Wow. I didn't know that saying facts was antagonizing people. I'm sorry? All I've done is stating your options. I guess I'll never state anyone's options again.

[LukeBu]

You are saying many things you believe alongside your facts. There is no such thing as stock VR equipment. There are billions of possible PC configurations. This is not necessarily to cater to some fringe hardware. Like I said I had issues with this, and there is nothing weird about my PC. You are getting insulted because you are in opposition, which even you seem to have no real argument against. (lets stop with name-calling though please seriously) You say you are not in opposition, but people that show up to BLM rallies with support our police signs are in opposition.(not starting a policical convo, just an example.) Here you are in a request thread, arguing why this feature is more important in Audica.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by LukeBu:

You are saying many things you believe alongside your facts. There is no such thing as stock VR equipment. There are billions of possible PC configurations. This is not necessarily to cater to some fringe hardware. Like I said I had issues with this, and there is nothing weird about my PC. You are getting insulted because you are in opposition, which even you seem to have no real argument against. (lets stop with name-calling though please seriously) You say you are not in opposition, but people that show up to BLM rallies with support our police signs are in opposition.(not starting a policical convo, just an example.) Here you are in a request thread, arguing why this feature is more important in Audica.

Again, the initial argument was about Beat Saber and Audica comparision, so you can't do that without talking about both games.

The other dude pretty much admitted that he's not using stock hardware, so you can see why I mentionned this, noticeable latency is in pretty much all cases (I'm not saying there's not a very fringe (and when I say fringe I mean extremely rare) case with stock VR equipment that experience latency) using some sort of other audio system or maybe USB/HDMI extensions (though, I doubt this one would cause much latency, but you never know), this is a fact that was discussed alot in the modding discord, this is not something I believe out of nowhere.

And there there is such thing as stock VR equipment and it is very simple: Only use equipment that came with your VR setup and maybe extra sensors, but no fancy audio systems or extension cords or anything else like that. Using the headset to output sound is the same for any mobo since you're not using the mobo sound chip, but the headset's one. If you're connecting very fancy audio headset on your HMD through 3.5mm jack might also cause delay, but this is extreme cases, 99% of them should be latency-less.

As for being in a request section, sure we are, but this thread is not read by the devs so it is practically useless, and therefore more like a wish section.